May 15/02 Watchtower: Apostate/Dateline Warning:

by dungbeetle 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • waiting
    waiting

    I opened my May 15, 02 WT (which is entitled "Who Is God?") to the article being discussed, which appears on page 24, and is handtyped in above by dungbeetle (very labor intensive, btw)

    This paragraph actually appears in the middle of the article, just slipped in slyly.

    "A Town Is Elated"

    The integrity of the upright and the wickedness of evildoers also have an effect on other people. “By his mouth the one who is an APOSTATE brings his fellowman to ruin,' says the king of Israel, "but by knowledge are the righteous rescued." (Proverbs 11:9) Who will deny that slander, harmful gossip, obscene talk, and idle chatter are damaging to others? A righteous one's speech, on the other hand, is pure, well-thought out, and considerate. By knowledge he is rescued because his integrity furnishes him with the points of reasoning needed to show that his accusers are lying. (caps & bold added)

    For the life of me..............I don't remember the word "apostate" appearing in the Hewbrew Scriptures. Perhaps some help on this?

    The rest of the article is showing the difference between apostate actions - and the actions of righteous persons. Of course, "apostate" only appears once.......but that sets the tone.

    Interestingly, "apostate" ones are shown within the congregation causing: (quoting)
    disorder,
    corruption,
    moral and perhaps economic deterioration.
    wickedness of evildoers
    slander
    harmful gossip
    obscene talk
    idle chatter
    disgruntled,
    dissatisfied,
    find fault
    speak bitterly about the ways things are done
    poisonous root that can spread and poison others "who initially were unaffected."
    want more authority and prominence.
    stir up rumors that there is injustice,
    stir up rumors that there is ethnic prejudice or the like in the congregation or on the part of elders.
    their mouths can cause division.
    despised his own fellowman,
    walking about as a slanderer
    uncovering confidential talk
    great harm caused by someone who lacks good judgment
    in want of heart.
    carries on loose talk to the pont of slander or reviling.
    unwholesome influence.

    All these nasty adjectives, btw, are found in only the last 7 paragraphs of this article - after the word "apostate" is used in a quote from the Bible. Lord knows how many more were thrown in the preceeding 12 paragraphs.

    What should a good dub do? The WTBTS asks this leading question - not actually demanding this: "Should we not turn a deaf ear to their talk and strive to be spiritual people who contribute to peace and unity in the congregation?" Ironically, the WTBTS forgot to tell the dubs to close their eyes also. Just like the Three Monkees - see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

    Sooooooooo, keeping the word "apostate" in view..........this sets the tone for the vile words for anyone who openly disagrees with the WTBTS - and what the WTBTS wants done to a person who's an apostate: "but when the wicked ones perish there is a joyful cry." (Prov. 11:10 quoted in article.)

    Thanks for bringing this article to our attention, Dung.

    waiting

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
    The apostates are dead!

    [8>]

    "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible" - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126
    Believe in yourself, not mythology.
    <x ><

  • lauralisa
    lauralisa

    Elsewhere:

    You know that they are VERY MUCH ALIVE. Evidence above.

    Thanks, Dungbeetle and waiting

  • Bang
    Bang

    This is the first of four occurrences in the book of Proverbs where scales and weights,are used to denote that Jehovah desires his worshipers to be honest in their business dealings

    Translation - This spiritual writing is really about money

    Ever think, 'can I move to another planet?'

    Bang

  • plmkrzy
  • Prisca
    Prisca

    Waiting,

    It seems I'm the only one who bothered to look up the scripture

    “By his mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin,' says the king of Israel, "but by knowledge are the righteous rescued." (Proverbs 11:9) (NWT)

    The NIV (New International Version) says:

    "With his mouth the godless destroys his neighbour, but through knowledge the righteous escape."

    So by comparing these Bibles, an "apostate" is a person who has left God, not necessarily one who has left an organisation.

  • simwitness
    simwitness

    Proverbs 11:9 says (KJV from http://www.blueletterbible.com)

    An hypocrite with [his] mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.
    A few other translations use "the godless man" instead of hypocrite.

    If you're quoting something, shouldn't you quote CORRECTLY????

  • simwitness
    simwitness

    From Strongs:

    02611 chaneph {khaw-nafe'}

    from 02610; TWOT - 696b; adj

    AV - hypocrite 13; 13

    1) hypocritical, godless, profane, hypocrite, irreligious

    hmmmm.... Apostate not listed as a definition.....hmmmmmm......And that word does not appear in the NT.
  • waiting
    waiting

    howdy Prisca,

    lol - I was at my computer at work....and it looks strange to have my Bible pulled out next to QuickBooks. Like I'm praying over my lousy accounting abilities or something, eh? I used to have one here, it disappeared. Perhaps the jw I work with took it as I was "misusing" it to quote on jw.com?

    While reading the article directly from the WT, I just marveled at the vileness seething through those paragraphs - directed at any who dare even question, let alone speak outloud, ANYTHING that the WTBTS says - and these are those WITHIN the congregation! "Members in good standing!" Lord only knows what they say about THIS place, eh?

    Gee, Sperm of Satan sounds right up their alley. (picturesque term on jw-WOL for Ray Franz, btw.)

    We're downright polite by comparison - who would have thunk.

    waiting

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    My PC is working today! yeh!!!!!!

    That is too funny.
    I wonder how many times the word “Knowledge” is used in the various Bibles. I bet more then “Apostate” And consider how many times the word “Rapture” was Used in the bible, uh once?

    But countless times I heard THAT in itself was reason enough to not take the Rapture idea seriously, at least not in the sense that everyone going to heaven will rapture at once and be kept safe through the battle of Arm. The WTBTS will be the first ones to tell you that that is not reasonable in fact it is down right stupid.

    I’m only trying to make the point that using the very same down right stupid reasoning, exactly backwards with the word “Apostate” the very same interpreters have taught that the word “Apostate” was used in the bible to specifically reference those who left the WTBTS as “GODLESS” even though it say's that nowhere in the bible, just the same that IS what is taught.

    They have Always taught that an apostate is someone who is specifically against JWs. They have never referenced any other persons of Any and ALL other faiths as apostate for leaving their faith or questioning it due to their personal decision to gather “Knowledge” and more “Knowledge” in fact ALL are commended for leaving any and all other faiths for any reason what so ever even if the reasons are something as silly or ludicrous as I just couldn’t stand the décor and interior design of the church any longer and had to get out and find a better looking synagogue.

    They couldn’t care less as long as you leave, and evil or godless or apostate is the last thing on earth they will call anyone for doing so. And why is that?
    Because they Know that simply leaving your "CHURCH" does NOT automaticly make you and "Apostate" a "GodLess" person. That would not be reasonable.

    However if you leave the WTBTS for any reason other then DEATH you are announced! To any and all other JWs as being a godless apostate hypocrite. Regardless of weather or not there is any truth to it at all your gonna die no if ands or buttts about it and unless you (the rest of the 6,000,000 JWs on earth) whole heartedly agree with that you are going down too.

    Well Jehovah is a God or reason and that kind of reasoning is simple enough to recognize as unreasonable.
    There cannot possibly be anything more unreasonable then that, no matter how you look at it.

    The Bible makes it plain and clear and simple even if you want to disguard everything else in it as fiction. So how can anyone deny that the KEY to gaining Anything is “KNOWLEDGE” knowledge knowledge and more knowledge and that is something we have to learn with OUR OWN faculties. It isn’t aguired by being told about it. Jesus didn’t teach by telling everyone to just sit down shut up and listen.

    BTW waiting, LOL
    Like I'm praying over my lousy accounting abilities or something, eh?


    http://my.cybersoup.com/wierdchit

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