Dekota meet me half way what kind of evidence are you looking for. And will evidence truly due the job or is it "Don't confuse me with the facts Jack, my mind is alreadt made up"
This way I can take the next step.....
Girls Playing Sports (good or bad idea)
by clash_city_rockers 72 Replies latest jw friends
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expatbrit
Clash:
Some definitions:
Gay: a male with a homosexual orientation; they may be celibate or sexually active.
Heterosexual: An adult person who is sexually attracted to other adults of the opposite gender, and not to other adults of the same gender. They may be celibate or sexually active.
Homosexual: An adult person who is sexually attracted to other adults of the same gender, and not to other adults of the opposite gender. They may be celibate or sexually active.
Lesbian: a female with a homosexual orientation. They may be celibate or sexually active.
Pedophile: In the past, this meant an adult who is sexually attracted to children - whether he/she acted on this desire or not. However, the term is now generally used to describe an adult who sexually abuses children; a child molester. Some pedophiles are attracted to both boys and girls; some are attracted to children of only one gender.
Sexual Orientation: This relates to the gender of persons that one is sexually attracted to. Persons with a: heterosexual orientation are attracted solely to members of the opposite gender; homosexual orientation are attracted solely to members of the same gender;
bisexual orientation are attracted to persons of both genders (not necessarily to an equal degree)A quote from the referenced U of C webpage, explaining the misconception of using the victim's gender to determine the abuser's orientation:
Another problem related to terminology arises because sexual abuse of male children by adult men2 is often referred to as "homosexual molestation." The adjective "homosexual" (or "heterosexual" when a man abuses a female child) refers to the victim's gender in relation to that of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, people sometimes mistakenly interpret it as referring to the perpetrator's sexual orientation.
The studies quoted show that homosexuals are no more likely than heterosexuals to either be attracted to or to molest children of the same sex. Thus, if you were to put a male child in a room with 1 randomly selected male homosexual, and then in a room with 1 randomly selected male heterosexual, the odds of that child being molested are the same in each case.To avoid this confusion, it is preferable to refer to men's sexual abuse of boys with the more accurate label of male-male molestation. Similarly, it is preferable to refer to men's abuse of girls as male-female molestation. These labels are more accurate because they describe the sex of the individuals involved but don't convey implicit assumptions about the perpetrator's sexual orientation.
If you have evidence that indicates differently, state it. So far you haven't given any whatsoever to support your assertions. Biblical quotes are not evidence.
Finally, a simple question for you:
If a male adult molests a male child, do you think he was attracted to the victim because a) the victim was male, or b) the victm was a child?
Expatbrit
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Naeblis
As long as you present nothing but propoganda with no evidence to support it, my answer is about as deep and detailed as you deserve.
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Abaddon
I really wonder where people like Clash go between their visits to this board... or between their 'outpourings'. Do they rotate round a number of boards and for the next few weeks Clash is the fundy in residence at JWD?
I hope not. Clash has claimed before to be a Cavanist and a presuppositionalist. This essentially means (as a Calvanist) he conceives of god as a being who has predetermined whether someone will or will not be saved, and 'calls' those who will be saved to him. His presuppositionalism means that essentially his arguement is 'I say god exists, therefore he exists', or perhaps in this case 'I say girls in sport are bad, there girls in sport are bad', or 'I say gays are bad, therefore gays are bad'.
Now, Clashsweety, if I am misrepresenting you, please let me know. If I am NOT misrepresenting you, then there is precious little point in discussing anything with you (as I have experienced before), as essentially in the end you will insist you are right because you are right.
I think people would be better off spending their time driving nails into brick walls with their foreheads... you'll see more of a result and it's less painful over time... of course, it is amusing watching him hoisting himself with astonishing regularity on his own petard... like having Funky D having to explain the Homer Simpson quote to him was rather funny, so feel free to play with Clash, but don't expect to get anywhere with a presuppositionaluist Calvanist.
Hey, Clash... you should come visit. I'm slowly geting my girlfriend deCalvanised... I'm sure I could find a nice man who could do the same to you.. after all, statistically speaking anyone as homophobic as you (the Bible is just an excuse) has got to be strongly latent and very conflicted.
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funkyderek
Simply because God says in his word the bible that it is a sin. A moral evil. But what is more frightening is that Homosexuality is a judgment from God, a way in which God demonstraits his wrath is by letting them go. Leaving unrepentant man over to his own sinful lusts giving them over to perversion. Man is dependent on the common grace of God which restrains the sinful inclanations of evil that man sturs up deep with in his heart.
So, sin is independent of any real value judgment? It makes no difference to you whether someone's actions are harmful or beneficial, only whether or not the Bible says it's a sin? Is that a correct assessment?
It also seems as if you're saying that God makes homosexuals have the feelings they do, although I'm not quite sure what you think his reasons are.The good news Funky, is that you can escape this judgment of wrath by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone
So if I have faith in Jesus, it's OK to be gay?In any case, if your god defines sin arbitrarily, makes people commit the sins and then forgives them based on what they believe rather than how they behave, how do you know he will behave fairly to people who do have faith, when his whole system is inherently unfair?
I'd rather take my chances living a good life, and hoping that if there is a god, I'll be treated fairly rather than kowtow to a god who would torture me on a whim.--
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. - Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts -
clash_city_rockers
Expatbrit,
Your definitions are partly true but also a bit misleading. Let me explain. A homosexual is known for his homosexual activity. Your use of the word celibate is very misleading especially given the promiscuous nature of the gay lifestyle. Your misleading definitions cannot give an account for the absolute fact that the gay community is a hotbed for aids cases. It’s not that they get their aids from sharing dirty heroin needles either. The gay community is not exactly the ghetto or the hood where heroin is mostly found. In fact most gay communities are upper middle class areas in urban cities. Truth is that if one were to walk around the Castro district in San Francisco or in West Hollywood they would sadly discover that these gay communities are also aids factories because of their rampant excessive homosexual promiscuity.
Look I don’t hate gay people, in fact I have a couple of gay friends whom I would like see repent of their sins and come to Christ. Secondly, I don’t hold that university studies are absolute authorities on the matter. In fact I would bet neither do you. If I would pull out another study from University of Chicago, or Wheaton College, or Duke University that held a different view from the UC Davis article you would not recognize their authority therefore abandoning your use of academia as authoritative. You cannot live consistently with the standard that says “Major University studies says it’s true, therefore it is true”. Your standard breaks down as soon as another university makes a study that contradicts the claim of the former university. This is because you are slanted favorably towards the gay rights propaganda and are not neutral to the matter, ----Reductio----- But then that’s the nature of modern academia.
Funky,
No, Funky your standard of what is sin is arbitrary you have no standard that is universal of what is right and wrong. If you have a value judgment then why should you neighbor respect it (this is the dilemma of your atheistic world view). You hate the God of the bible but you are absolutely dependent on Him for moral and ethical judgments.
Misunderstanding Romans 1 Funky writes:
It also seems as if you're saying that God makes homosexuals have the feelings they do, although I'm not quite sure what you think his reasons are.
No read the text (Romans 1:18-32) God gives them over to their sinful inclinations, imaginations, and all sorts of evils that man stirs up and makes in his heart. So it is man that makes himself homosexual and God with all brevity and sadness lets wicked men go to pursue their evil pursuits whether it is homosexuality, false religion like Jehovah’s Witnesses or some other evil.Funky asks a great question:
So if I have faith in Jesus, it's OK to be gay?
If you had faith in Christ, the He would have changed your heart so that you would not pursue such sins like homosexuality. If you are gay then He will deliver you from homosexuality and its desires and all other afflictions of the heart that are associated with homosexuality.Funky, God does deal fairly with sin, he dealt fairly in the person of Jesus Christ by having him die on the cross so that many will be saved by placing their trust on Him. God will deal fairly with you, if you have Christ your sins are paid for and there is nothing to fear. If you don’t have Christ then God will still be fair with you by sending you to Hell. Funky, salvation is not earned contrary to what the WT or the Catholics in Ireland say. Salvation is free in Christ.
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clash_city_rockers
Now Lets talk about the subject at hand how will you protect your daughters yet at the same time have them enjoy some level of athletic compatition while battling the corruptions of the secular culture.
this has been an informative dicscussion and I do thank you for your part of the dialog.
shalom,
jr -
SixofNine
God hates people like Clash, and He is going to burn Clash forever.
My views on the fairness of eternal torment have changed due to this thread, especially taken in total with the rest of Clash's criminal ravings of the past. Suddenly, eternal torment seems perfectly righteous.
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funkyderek
No, Funky your standard of what is sin is arbitrary you have no standard that is universal of what is right and wrong. If you have a value judgment then why should you neighbor respect it (this is the dilemma of your atheistic world view). You hate the God of the bible but you are absolutely dependent on Him for moral and ethical judgments.
Codswallop! Sin is that which violates another person's rights. No violation of rights, no sin. In your view, consensual sex can be a sin and genocide can be justifiable. Your barbaric god is completely irrelevant to my morality.
If you had faith in Christ, the He would have changed your heart so that you would not pursue such sins like homosexuality. If you are gay then He will deliver you from homosexuality and its desires and all other afflictions of the heart that are associated with homosexuality.
So people who believe in Jesus don't sin?Funky, God does deal fairly with sin, he dealt fairly in the person of Jesus Christ by having him die on the cross so that many will be saved by placing their trust on Him. God will deal fairly with you, if you have Christ your sins are paid for and there is nothing to fear. If you don’t have Christ then God will still be fair with you by sending you to Hell. Funky, salvation is not earned contrary to what the WT or the Catholics in Ireland say. Salvation is free in Christ.
How is that fair? Try to stand back and look at it as an abstract example. This god had his son tortured and killed so that people who believe without evidence that this event occurred, would be given some sort of hidden information or power whereby they would be saved from "sin" and its consequences. Those who see the contradictions inherent in the story (or have never had the opportunity to hear the story) and refuse to believe in a fairy tale without sufficient evidence are then tortured for eternity by the same god. Why does this god have to punish humans by eternal torture. OK, he's given them a "get out of jail free" card but has hidden it from the majority of the world.
If you still think that's fair, there's probably nothing more I can do for you, but consider the following possibility:
Imagine a god who created humans with free will and allows them to use it. They are rewarded if they behave well towards other people and punished if they do not. Would that god be more or less fair than your god?Now Lets talk about the subject at hand how will you protect your daughters yet at the same time have them enjoy some level of athletic compatition while battling the corruptions of the secular culture.
Protect them from what? Specifically, what about "the secular culture" could possibly corrupt them? If they have faith, aren't they automatically saved and therefore immune to homosexuality? And once saved, always saved, right?--
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. - Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts -
Valis
It is truly a shame when something upbuilding, not to mention really wholesome, like children playing together and cooperating, is tainted by clash. Maybe if jackhole spent a little less time reading crappy articles and more time engaging in the "secular" world, he might realize he's espousing the very same spurious arguments the WT uses to rob the young of an important part of their life. Namely organized sports of any kind. All of this homophobic talk spawns from tiny minded men who feel emasculated by women who can kick, throw, shoot, fish (well, OK...I guess), or play any sport at competitive levels. Some might want to check out the following history of women's role in sports here:
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~devoss/general-history.html.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer