MANDATORY Reporting of Child Abuse

by silentlambs 129 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

dungbeetle

I agree Fred...and if they refuse? Say, either the guilty parent or the innocent parent (if there is such a thing..) what shouldl the Watchtower do then as far as their standing in the congregation?
waiting

Hello dung,
either the guilty parent or the innocent parent (if there is such a thing..) - dung
You asked what should the WT do about a jw "guilty parent or the innocent parent (if there is such a thing)" if they failed to report their child being abused to the proper legal authorities - am I correct in understanding you?
Are you suggesting that there are no parents who don't know their child is being/was abused? Bad form knowing that there are parents of abused children here. If that was your intent - I do take exception, strongly.
waiting
morrisamb

Yet another excellent tread.
You know what drove my siblings and I crazy? More than the fact the Elders never told us the abuse was illegal, never suggested reporting it to the police, etc., was this:
They didn't hug us and tell us they cared about what we were feeling.
They asked us to describe our role in this "sin".
And more than anything else, while they did the right thing in disfellowshipping our abuser, they publicly reproved our mother for not having disclosed to them!!!!
Here's an excerpt from my book on this point:
Finally Mama is called in to answer questions.
“I did not tell anyone because I was embarrassed for the kids, for me, even for Daniel. What would you Elders t’ink of us? I kept everyt’ing to myself for so long, I didn’t know what to do or how to feel. I know that Daniel influenced me to keep everyt’ing quiet.”
“It was very wrong of you not to report the situation to us.”
“I truly feel horrible and guilty and pray God will forgive me. I am ashamed. Yes, at first I was shocked and angry at Ronny for telling and den I knew it was de best t’ing to do. But still I was ashamed and did not want many to know.”
Within days, another meeting is called. Once again, I’m in the little room with the big men. This time Mama and my brothers and sister are with me. One of the men starts talking.
“Your father will be disfellowshipped and your mother publicly reproved for conduct unbecoming a Christian….When your father comes to meetings, he will sit at the back of the hall. You will sit with him and your mother. Remember, you must still honor your father as head of the household.”
I am dizzy. “Mother publicly reproved…sit at the back of the hall …honor your Father.” I can’t hear the rest of what this Elder is mumbling.
I am happy. I understand Papa’s excommunication will mean he is no longer a Jehovah’s Witness. That makes sense. God’s people do not play The Game with their children. They also don’t ask their children to lie about it to their Mama.
I am confused. How shall we “honor” our father? He never talks to us unless we play The Game. Does God expect my siblings and me to honor our father in some things but not in others?
I am sad. Mama’s being punished because of my testimony. Why? I don’t understand! Mama’s hurting and Papa has something to do with it. I have something to do with my mother’s pain.
How can I feel sad yet happy at the same time? The big secret is out, but there is this weird feeling hanging over all of us. I am afraid of these men, but God must have told them to do this.
As we drive home, Mama talks first.
“It’s God’s will. I made a mistake. I should have told the Elders.”
Again Papa says nothing.
We’re driving to the big four-bedroom house on top of the hill with the barn, silo, and chicken coop. Nothing’s changed. People know and we’re still living with Papa as one family. Will the abuse continue? I believe it will. I know it will.
On Sunday, we go to the congregation meeting and the public announcement is made.
“Daniel D’Haene is disfellowshipped for conduct unbecoming a Christian. Jeannette D’Haene is publicly reproved. Now, let us stand and sing song number….”
We’re at the center of a sick kind of circus and yet no one looks at us. I don’t understand why. I feel nothing. What am I supposed to feel?
COPYRIGHT 2001, FATHER'S TOUCH, AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHING
garybuss

Jehovah's Witnesses have sure changed a LOT since the 1940's when they argued with dedication they were not even a religion and that religion represented "superstition and demonism" and claimed that "God and religion are diametrically opposed." *
Now they are a religion and they are demanding that their agents be awarded clergy legal rights. So all along, they were a religion and the Witnesses were clergy after all. What? God's Corporation was a religion and didn't even know it? Yeah right!
That anybody takes these idiots seriously is still beyond me.
Glad you are trying to influence them to change Bill and also glad you are helping to publicize their crimes. I can't yet appreciate your presentation position as one of them. I most likely am not aware of all the facts. I do appreciate your courage and your decision to aid your credibility and not be anonymous.
I was not sexually abused by them. I was physically abused by them and I was a witness to horrendous physical abuse of Witness children. The people I respect most are those who publicly reject the Watch Tower Corporation and all of their agents and who refuse to be associated with that whole group.
Clergy my ass . . .
gb
* THEOCRATIC AID TO KINGDOM PUBLISHERS WTB&TS 1945 p. 205 - 206
Pathofthorns

The Society has often criticized the paid and trained clergy of other religions and seemingly bragged about how their elders are much like Jesus' apostles - "men unlettered and oridinary".
It is no secret that these men, however well meaning they might be, are often incompetent and unqualified for various aspects their position may entail, particularly in matters such as alcohol and drug abuse, marriage counselling, child abuse etc. Much of the time they cannot even explain their beliefs properly let alone serious topics such as these.
I have not discounted the possibility that mandatory reporting of child abuse might be advisable in certain situations. I do think with regard to child abuse, that different situations might require different measures for dealing with a situation. A child in imminent danger versus an adult who has recalled an incident of molestation in the past might be handled differently. A victim who has now matured into an adult would likely want to choose how she/he would proceed with the matter.
The 02-02 BOE letter makes it clear elders are to contact WT legal immediately upon learning of child abuse. Depending on what sort of advice the Society is giving to it's elders when they call, it seems that it *could* be a possibility that this requirement to phone WT legal could make up somewhat for the elder's lack of training in these matters - if the advice given was appropriate and if they followed it. Is there any way to determine whether WT would or would not advise local elders to contact the authorities in cases of imminent danger for a child?
It appears there are a few misconceptions when it comes to the reporting of child abuse. Some have taken statements I have made out of context to make it appear there is a contradiction in how silentlambs views the issue of reporting child molestation
I will ask you directly, when a victim comes forward with their story to Silentlambs, do you Bill Bowen contact the authorities if the victims have not yet done so? Or do you allow the victim to make that choice? If victims knew that if they told their story to you, you would contact the authorites irregardless of their wishes, do you think you would be contacted by more victims or less victims?
Path
amccullough

Morrisamb -
They didn't hug us and tell us they cared about what we were feeling.
They asked us to describe our role in this "sin".
And more than anything else, while they did the right thing in disfellowshipping our abuser, they publicly reproved our mother for not having disclosed to them!!!!
I would be willing to attribute the first 2 sentences to the fact that you were dealing with untrained, unskilled elders who were probably thumbing their way through the situation.
But the last sentence, I don't see a problem with. I'm sorry that I haven't followed or looked up any of your previous threads, so I don't know the details of what you are speaking about. But if the "innocent" parent does hold back from reporting a crime like this, I would be inclined to hold them somewhat responsible.
silentlambs

Dear Path please reread,
I have watched the intentional effort by Pathofthorns to defend WT Policy and create misinformation regarding the silentlambs effort. As you continue to attack with lies and misinformation a meaningful effort to protect children I have to wonder do you have any conscience at all? Are you being paid by wt for your lies? Why do you continue to attack a position that simply does not exist? Why do you create boundaries for silentlambs and question them when you know as well as I that we do not stand or take that position?
In your last post you wrote the following:
“I would agree that the authorities should be contacted if any child IS being abused or in a dangerous home environment.”
This is a contradiction from what you have stated in the past, you have always held the position wt policy was the right course in letting it be a personal decision. WT makes no distinction between current and past molestation it is always optional to report the crime to authorities. Now you want to have it both ways-busted.
You wrote:
“But I think we need to keep in mind that most of these people who have been molested or abused had this occur several years in the past when they were children.”
This also is a misleading statement, a large portion of molestations are reported when children tell their parents in real time, not when they became adults. “Most” is a dead wrong statement and implies that the majority of reported molestations involve adults. If that were true then why do we have child services in every county in this country? It is mainly children who report molestation, NOT adults.
You wrote:
“At some point these individuals attempt to come to terms with what happened. They may confide in someone and begin to talk about what happened to them. What the Silentlambs group appears to be suggesting is that if an elder were to hear this information he should immediately report the matter to the authorities whether the victim wishes this to be done or not.”
This is an outright lie and this thought has never been part of the solution to wt policy. Silentlambs requests on any report of molestation that the victim be encouraged to go to the police first BEFORE reporting to the BOE. This avoids the elder investigation clouding a real police investigation. If this step was enacted there would be no need for WT Legal or elders to even have to worry about reporting, the family would now be empowered to take appropriate action. Now that power is taken away from them.
You wrote,
“From what Bill posted earlier on this thread, it would seem that in actual practice he takes exactly the same position as the WT in leaving it up to the victim to decide whether to go to the authorities. Unless Bill Bowen reports all crimes that come to his attention I would be mistaken.”
---------------------
quote:
I have talked to many victims who have never reported their abuse, I simply encourage them to talk about it to counslers, close friends, or report the matter on the sl website. The more they learn they can speak out the more likely they are to report the crime.
---------------------
Once again lies and misinformation, elders are authorized to conduct extensive investigations into child molestation allegations to determine wrongdoing. This should not be done before a police investigation as elders are totally untrained when it comes to knowing how to conduct an investigation of child molestation allegations. WT does not encourage the elders to tell a family to go to the police unless they live in a clergy mandatory reporting state, of which there are few. In cases outside of this scenario JW’s are clearly DISCOURAGED from reporting the crime. They cannot tell anyone in the congregation with the risk of being charged with slander, if they report to the police they are viewed as not “waiting on Jehovah” and going outside the organization for help. To infer or imply that I take the “same position as WT” on reporting is a flat out insult to everything silentlambs stands for. WT policy is and continues to be proven wrong, for anyone to represent it otherwise means they are either extremely stupid or have an agenda in WT interests.
In the hundreds of cases that have been brought to my attention each person is always encouraged to report the matter to the police, each person is always encouraged to get needed counseling and therapy. We are willing to help provide any material or assistance to prosecute child molesters. I am not charged by home office to conduct a judicial investigation and examine every detail of what happened. Elders do not do what I suggest to victims, they cover for WT Legal. To suggest any comparison is also an insult to the silentlambs organization as it is not true.
You wrote:
“The fact that many states don't have mandatory reporting laws is proof that the matter is not black or white.”
Lies, Lies, Lies, ALL STATES HAVE MANDATORY REPORTING OF CHILD MOLESTATION IT IS A CRIME. IT IS BLACK AND WHITE.
You wrote:
“Why leaving it to the victim to go to the authorities is wise in the majority of these cases where the abuse happened in the past is because it is the victim's testimony that will be required to build a case. It is the victim who may indeed be 'victimized' again in the courtroom through harsh cross-examinations.”
Your comments are made simply scare victims from coming forward. The police determine how strong a victim is to testify. The courts are very sensitive to not allowing a victim to be revictimized before a jury. Also in the outside event the judge allows a defense lawyer to be abusive it causes the jury to rule for the victim and works to the accused disadvantage, again to imply otherwise smacks of misinformation.
You wrote,
“A victim may have made much progress in moving on from what happened and this fragile recovery could be set back as they are forced to relive the events that happened for the court in the often slim hopes of a conviction. Sure, a victim may have done their civic duty, but at what price?”
What a wicked assumption! Coming forward is a healing event, facing down and reporting the molester is a positive outcome that makes a person stronger. When they speak out they find they do and will have support. They for the first time often feel they are able to move on from the molestation affects on their lives. The “price” is to their advantage and healing yet you would encourage them to not take this important step, shame on you.
You wrote:
quote:
when you do not report a child molester and he or she molests another child you now share in the crime.
“How does a statement like this make the majority of victims feel who have not reported the crime committed against them? Are the victims criminals now?”
That statement helps victims to see the real issue at stake and the importance of protecting children who will be future victims. Your statement encourages them to keep the matter hidden, that is wrong and it protects the pedophile.
You wrote:
“I would venture to say it is families that are more often than not covering over abuse while it is occuring and indefinitely after it has occurred. I think it is unacceptable for any parent to cover over for abuse on the part of a mate or another relative or anyone. Why have we been overlooking the parent's responsibility in all of this?”
Your implication is once again false. "Families" do not cover up abuse when they are Jehovah’s Witnesses, WT forces them to cover the abuse by the exercise of WT Policy. To try and blame it on the parents now is much like when the Society blamed us for 1975. That dog won’t hunt. If parents were empowered by WT policy to report the crime of child molestation then silentlambs efforts could be better placed in simply supporting victims of molestation. Wt refuses to make any adjustment but to hold to present Policy. The fault is with the GB who directs the organization, they know children are being hurt yet they refuse to take proper action. When they are exposed Jw’s and the whole world will see them for what they have proven themselves to be. “By their fruits you will recognize these men.”
Your fruits put you in much the same category. You create positions that do not exist, accuse silentlambs of things they have never said, provide twisted arguments that defend the current WT Policy on child molestation. Then you cut and run saying you hate WT. Your fruits prove otherwise.
You wrote:
“Because we hate the WT. Run WT, Run”
Yet another lie, I nor anyone else who works with silentlambs hates WT or Jehovah’s Witnesses. We hate the fact they protect child molesters and hope policy will change to protect all JW children. “Run WT run” is what WT Legal will do when brothers and sisters as well as everyone else are educated to how WT Policy is hurting children, they will require the proper policy to take effect. When needed changes come JW’s have the freedom to practice their religion as any other recognized religion in the USA. As stated earlier silentlambs remains neutral with regard to doctrinal issues, we simply stick to helping victims of child molestation.
The long posts that you make to the innuendo and twists of logic have a strange similarity to “friend” who stopped posting several months ago. I encourage anyone to review the exchange between “friend” and “focus” that went for several hundred pages. The reasoning and logic of “friend” closely follows your current posting and challenges to silentlambs. I wonder if there is not a link? You have never contacted silentlambs privately but only challenge publicly, you never respond to clarifying explanations, instead, continue to attack positions you create that simply do not exist. I refuse to waste further time and effort to argue with your insipid logic, but I think the time taken to answer your recent post will help most readers to form their own conclusions as to what your “real” agenda is.
In the future when you try to restart misdirection posts on silentlambs issues I will simply repost this thread.
silentlambs
mrs rocky2

In 1998 there was a group in the State of Washington trying to make clergy mandatory reports. It didn't fly. But teachers and school staff, mental health counselors and staff, medical personnel (public and private) are all mandatory reporters to law enforcement. In the small town where I live at least the clergy of mainstream religions have educated themselves and taken pro-child, pro-active positions to protect children. It is unfortunate that children of the WT are socially isolated. They have limited association with people outside the congregation, limited trust with those who are mandatory reporters. These children are really silent lambs - meek, sheep like, vulnerable, with no voice, and very few (sometimes none) trustworthy shepherds.
DakotaRed

Since the dubs pride themselves, in fact, even brag about not having a clergy, isn't it a bit hypocritical they can claim clerical privilege?
If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?
dungbeetle

Watchtowerites certainly do try to eat from both sides of the buttered bread.
I have the 1960 "Legally Establishing and Defending the Good News"--paraphrased- ((( Dakota Red ))) in which it states that ALL Jehovah's Witnesses are ministers (and thus the titling of their convert-making how-to Journal "Our Kingdom Ministry"--get it--MINISTRY) and that being the case..this just goes to show you how far back that goes.
No active Jehovah's Witness can go to the authorities about child abuse without violating the confidentiality mandate in a non-reporting state, since they are all ministers. Hmmph...
And yet they say ELDERS must report abuse in a reporting state, but MUST NOT report abuse in a non-reporting state, and yet active Jehovah's Witnesses MAY report in any state.
HUH?
Hey, Path and Hillery, why don't you sort through THAT one, hey....

MANDATORY Reporting of Child Abuse

Share this