Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist

by DS211 243 Replies latest jw friends

  • DS211
    DS211

    On the way out--thank you i need a starting point yes.

    Bohm--"But keep in mind all that is needed is a very dense state of uniform radiation that expand very rapidly and (13 billion years later) you get galaxies and planets capable of supporting life though a fairly well-understood process. Why presume god is the best (let alone only!) answer to how such a state could arise?"

    --whered the radiation come from? If it came from another thing, and it has a beginning what began it?.

    --what about an artist? Thats a creation...its not for food. Why did cavemen carve and draw on walls? Certainly not just for food... To tell a story? To chronicle their way of life? Why has man always seen a need to keep records?

    Im not saying the God of the Bible has to be the only one...but the evidence of a higher power to is there. And i know its not possible foryou guys to answer all my ranting and ravings lol but these are thoughts i have...and not being out of the org yet...have limited research on and limited time to research.

    Scientology is certain true things mixed with mans imagination. Why is it we were the only ones with the brain large enough to have imaginations? because we as humans evolved highest and choked off and controlled the chance for other things to evolve to the point we are?

    Im not saying you are wrong...theres just a lot of doubts i have over it. So i do suppose with my limited knowledge im just scrwtching the surface.

    Yadda--i understand what you are saying and i must say the lack of verification and testing puts a big dent in ones attempt to prove God exists. I do think its interesting that the ewrly christians new that the temple was inside themselve like at 1 cor 3:16.

    Oh hey Theists please feel free to jump in and....ya know...back me up.

    i know im crappy at debating but yea lol.

    DS211

  • bohm
    bohm

    DS211: whered the radiation come from? If it came from another thing, and it has a beginning what began it?.

    We do not know. Potential answers could be: from something else or that the answer does not make sence.

    Notice a theist is firmly comitted to the idea something could just exist forever and cause (litterally) anything, including the big bang. Why do you think that is a particular good explanation? Put in another way, i could answer you like this:

    "There is this thing called an X-field. The X-field just exist and has always existed, but you cant understand the X-field much beyond that because it is beyond your abilities. Every once in a while, the X-field cause a big bang with some string theory as laws. Thats why our universe exist and this explain every aspect of our universe".

    We both agree this explanation does not explain anything and is non-scientific nonsence; I do not see why the theistic explanation is that much different.

    --what about an artist? Thats a creation...its not for food. Why did cavemen carve and draw on walls? Certainly not just for food... To tell a story? To chronicle their way of life? Why has man always seen a need to keep records?

    I dont get your argument at all. Do you claim the reason I am here on JWN creating this post can only be explained by God? You might find this article interesting:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_origin_of_religions

    because we as humans evolved highest and choked off and controlled the chance for other things to evolve to the point we are?

    When intelligence evolve on a planet, one race would have to be the first. On this planet, that is us.

    Im not saying you are wrong...theres just a lot of doubts i have over it. So i do suppose with my limited knowledge im just scrwtching the surface.

    Welcome to agnostisim :-). Keep digging!

  • DS211
    DS211

    fair point J Hofer! Good on ya with the virus comment.

    Adamah--agreed they are dishonest..i remember reading somewhere about someone questioning the flood and noahs ark and all that and saw loads of misinterpretations, intellectual dishknesty, false things. Interesting read.

    it is interesting about the Genesis. But hey! If a crwative day is a thousand years then thad be ample time for (by the end of the day) to evolve animals into their own "kinds" or species, right? Lol

    i will say i find it straight that the earth has 4 corners, complying with the "earth is flat" concept.....

  • DS211
    DS211

    Bohm im saying....to create something whether itd be tools for food, shelter, art, hinting, sports, anything. What explanation is there for why we create? Its either evolved from simple to more complex or just instilled in is...either way, whered it come from? Thanks for the wiki article. Ill def read it. why do you say on this planet? Certainly alien life is placed near the same spot as theism as there isnt much evidence(except ufo and all that, or a comet that hit with certain qualities to produce life) to suggest its existence.

    Since i still believe there is a God, i am naturally open to the idea of other life on other planets...and if you look at the Bible and other cultures that believe in a creator or gods, the idea of ckming fom the sky or angels with wings could very well be a space shop right? Lol jesus couldve ascended up to the clouds to a space shop! Who knows. As i do feel that the Bible and all those books provide a n avenue of evidence to a higher power i naturally do not agree that this is the only avenue one should take to prove or disprove this....that would be chaining myself again.

  • DS211
    DS211

    Thanks guys and girls this is thought provoking...

    to my fellow theists/believers--if you are disappointed at how poorly i am defending myself and faith in God please jump in!Please!

  • bohm
    bohm

    DS211:

    Bohm im saying....to create something whether itd be tools for food, shelter, art, hinting, sports, anything. What explanation is there for why we create?

    Well, animals create tools as well. You are asking why tool-making humanoids evolved better abilities to create tools?

    I know art seem strange, why should that evolve? A simple guess could be that art (as we see it now) is related to creativity and getting chicks, which has a clear evolutionary advantage ;-).

  • cofty
  • DS211
    DS211

    Hahaha nice one OR from lack of chicks may cause one to kill onesself or chop ones own ear off..

  • DS211
    DS211

    Thanks cofty i overlooked that! Not purposefully sooooo. I dont disagree (hold: phone call from elder asking if i can go out in service, sadly my daughters sick :-((((() lol) ok . Thats a difficult thing to inderstand, particularly suffering. And not just suffering but the amount of time humans have suffered...how could god allow this to happen...i know its all satan right? Why, with Gods infinite power and wisdom couldnt he just redo adam and eve, kill satan, start over, and rewire us not to have any hatred or evil tendencies? To teach a lesson?! Hm. no doubt if God is real he doesnt Forsee the future...if he did he shouldve intervened in the Garden...

    but theres a balance---without suffering thered be no compassion...without hardship and pain or enslavement how would we know or appreciate peace, relief, or freedom. As i am waking up there are many things i cannot answer...hence why i posted this thread...had to incite you right? Lol

  • cofty
    cofty

    .without hardship and pain or enslavement how would we know or appreciate peace, relief, or freedom

    This could only be proposed by somebody who studiously avoids thinking about the depth of human suffering. It is the shallowest of excuses for god.

    What about the hiddenness of god?

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