@ Now what...Excellent...
"admit all past mistakes and reboot! more emphasis on love and christ and charitable works"....that's on the top list...has anyone ever heard of the witnesses helping others that are not their brothers ?
Legacy
Earthly Organization Reset - What Would You Do?
by committeechairman 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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DATA-DOG
Much like " Division " from Nikita, the ORG should be completely destroyed.
Any attempt to use it for good, would be like trying to use "The One Ring" for good. It cannot be done because "organized" religion reached it's expiration date when the Law was nailed to the cross. Organized religion cannot exist without corrupting those who attempt to wield it's power. The ORG should be cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came..
DD
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Island Man
The mandatory doctrines that JWs should be required to agree on should be limited to only those matters that are explicitly taught in the bible and that are not based on twisting texts out of context and injecting human speculation and assumptions into their interpretation. Doctrines like the 1914 invisible presence/seven gentile times and the 1919 appointement of the faithful and discreet slave, should not be taught as bible-based truth, let alone be grounds for charges of apostasy for those who reject them.
In keeping with the above, blood transfusions should be a conscience matter since the scriptural prohibition on blood obviously had the eating of blood in mind. There is no way to know for sure that Jehovah intended for it to apply to blood transfusions and it is not unusual for biblical laws to have exceptions for extenuating circumstances. (Think of the situation with the daughters of Zelophehad as one example). Thus, one cannot claim that prohibition on the eating of blood naturally means that blood transfusions are prohibited. It should thus be a matter left up to individual consciences. However, the prohibition on the eating of blood is explicit.
JWs should be permitted to have differences of opinion on matters not explicitly taught in scripture provided that they do not contradict what the scriptures explicitly teach and provided that they do not look down on others of a different opinion or seek use their different opinion as a cause for creating divisions or sectarianism.
The bible should in deed and in truth be the main textbook that JWs use, and it should be studied contextually - not topically. They should cease the regular publication of the myriad of literature which are wearisome to the flesh and take time away from studying the actual bible - devoid of the fallible commentary and reasonings of men. (Ecclesiastes 12:11,12)
Input from the membership in the matter of correcting errors in doctrine, should be welcomed by those in leadership position. Issues brought to the attention of the leadership should be conscientiously investigated and corrected.
What the bible actually says should always be the final authority on matters. Obedience should not be blind but based on the bible's authority. Unity should be based on what the bible actually says - not one interpretations of men.
Boasting that JWs are the only true religious organization and associating with them alone is necessary for salvation should be deemed an arrogant, disgusting load of haughty crap and be forever rejected.
The name Jehovah's Witnesses should be rejected are replaced with the name Christians - just Christians and nothing else.
The organizational structure should be as outlined in the bible without the extrabiblical hierarchies like governing body, district overseer, circuit overseer, etc. There should be no organization beyond the scripturally outlined congregation arrangement.
A person can only be expelled for the reasons explicitly stated in the bible and for no other reason. A disfellowshipped person should not be permitted to attend the meetings (given that first century meetings were held in private homes and expelled members were "removed from the midst" of the congregation and were not allowed entry into the meeting home. See 1 Corinthians 5:13 and 2 John 10). Repentant individual should be welcomed back without long waiting periods.
Whenever an a case of child abuse is reported to the elders it should always be reported to the police - regardless of how many material witnesses there are to the incident. If the victim is the only witness then the results of the police investigation and trial can be viewed as the second witness and be used to determine whether or not to expell the wrongdoer.
Minors should not be baptized.
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EndofMysteries
I wonder if OP is one of the governing body who knows it's wrong and trying to come up with ways to fix it and keep it intact lol.
I don't remember if it was Rutherford or Russell, but early magazines were written about how organized religion is of Satan and they gave their points as to why. Shortly later they became what they were teaching was of Satan.
Anyway, here is my input on what should be done if the religion was rebooted. But first, I'll list and state why I don't think that scriptually there will be a one worldwide religion prior to the 1000 year reign or new world, etc.
The scriptures say, Jesus didn't say to seek out one group of people, but the only identifying mark is they have love among themselves. That the weeds and wheat will grow together until the harvest.
That the body of Christ has many different parts, which do different things, but as a whole they accomplish his work. In this point, it would be impossible for one organization who is focused on one thing to be able to accomplish everything. JW's focus only on preaching. Yet the scriptures have commandments on feeding and helping the poor, widows, fatherless boys, etc. So for JW's to say they are the only ones who do preaching so they are the true one is wrong. They don't do anything for helping poor. Salvation army is doing God's work of helping them however. Worldwide even in non christian cultures God can move people and there are people who are christlike in all cultures and religions. Those are who are judged who don't know the law but by nature do the things of the law and have it written in their hearts.
Now to get to specifics with JW's.
First, the governing body say they are not inspired, they can't say that then at the same time say everyone must obey them as if Jehovah himself and those who don't follow their direction are rebelling against God. If God was using them like Moses or any inspired ones, then they would not have been wrong about the generations, the resurrection, not marrying, not getting employment, and all the other changes. They need to admit those mistakes, admit that disfellowshippings were human decisions and not from God, and allow spiritual freedom. Spiritual freedom means one puts the bible and their conscience above what any other human tells them is right or wrong.
Shunning policy is a major twisting of scriptures. It's for those who are active members who profess. So for example of a member was activly commiting adultury and told all he won't stop, he can do stuff w/ any married women he wants, then he would be shunned by members, only until stopping and repenting. This has absolutely nothing to do with God forgiving him or not, that is between him and God. But this just shows that members won't tolerate that and it's not acceptable for those who consider themselves to be apart of them. However if he was to leave the religion, he is no longer professing to be a member, so he would be treated like any other worldly person. (not shunned, just a non believer). General sins, elders or older men can help pray, console, encourage, but they have no place to judge. Tons of scriptures talk about not judgeing. The only time Paul said to judge was a man who was with his father's wife, (something against another person and in everyones face, vs just sin that was personal and not hurting anybody, etc)
The scriptures on never talking to somebody or taking them into your home.....that's specifically talking about the antichrist and more specficially those trying to persuade that Christ never came to Earth. So one who doesn't believe, that's their business, but those trying to teach that, don't talk to them. (this is again just going strictly based on what the scriptures in the bible say)
The early christians helped their elderly and poor. The WT is horrible, not only did they give commands to not prepare for retirement and better education promising those would never need them because the end was so close, with all the money they get they don't help any who are in dire conditions because of that. The early christians helped themselves and others. Other churches do the same, helping their own under bad times and non members too.
Another major thing, is association, parties, gatherings, etc. Not only does the WT teach to not associate with any outsiders, but also that it's bad to associate with insiders. You'd think with such a small number of possibly associates, they would have weekly or biweekly gatherings. The assembly halls w/ all their lands could have volleyball, BBQ, etc setup and the whole religion as not only worship together but associate together.
Other churches are always having social events together and this shouldn't be discouraged but encouraged.
Higher education and planning for retirement should be encouraged. The end can come at any time, it's hoped in their lifetime, but plan for the worst and hope for the best type attitude.
Meetings and study should not be studying another persons comments and reasoning and just repeating what they said in the watchtower. A true bible study would be reading a set of scriptures IN CONTEXT, and discussing what they mean. Any audience participation should be based on free thought and no 2 answers will be the same vs read a paragraph then ask a question then reread a phrase in the paragraph as the answer.
Most of the people in the religion are good people, can fixing it happen while keeping them together.
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problemaddict
I actually think there is a pretty easy solution here. No need to hit reset, no need to destroy and build. Everything can be boiled down to one particular thing.
Recognize the WT and the publications from it are merely an "editorial" on scripture, and remove the threat of shunning if you do not act in accord with its teachings.
Period. That means, if you don't agree with 1914, but do believe in spreading Gods name and preaching, you cna do so and don't have to mess with 1914 while being honest about it.
You could take blood or a fraction knowing its on you if you are right or wrong. You could dismiss quackery, and non-sense previously written because its just an editorial. No more kind of sort of we are modern day Moses and going against us is Korah....refferences.
That would pretty much do it. Someone rapes a kid or cheats on his wife a million times.......kick em out ona vote of the congregation locally. You could still have a branch or central area, but the point is you strip them of this assumed authority over others that they believe they have.
Everything would change as a result.
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Legacy
Hi @ endofMysteries,
Excellent....I could not have expressed it better myself....I like the part where you mentioned "The Early Christians helped the Elderly & the poor" We are now reading for our Bible Study from a brochure.."Who are doing Jehovah's Will today? I will copy & paste one of the paragraphs from Lesson 18..We Provide practical assistance:
The elders who are at the scene of a disaster locate each congregation member to ensure that everyone is accounted for and safe. A relief committee may coordinate the supplying of food, clean drinking water, clothing, shelter, and medical help. Many Witnesses with the needed skills volunteer to go at their own expense and participate in the relief work or to repair damaged homes and Kingdom Halls. The unity that we enjoy as an organization and the experience we have gained in working together enable us to mobilize quickly in times of need. Although we extend our hand to “those related to us in the faith,” we assist others too when possible, whatever their religion .—Galatians 6:10. This is addressed to anyone on this site...has anyone ever been to one of these disaster scenes & have seen witnesses help anyone else that wasn't a witness...
I know the Society is discreet, so maybe they did & no one reported it....The forum is open...
One of my pet peeves is....Michael the Archangel is Jesus Christ...they could start with that...& also, the Org. is God's mouthpiece...NOT....that is most witnesses badge of honor, not the doctrine but that they are the only ones....
Bad association, I live in NYC, if everyone was so bad, why are we stepping on dead bodies all day long ?
Legacy
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Legacy
Hi From Legacy,
I meant to say, why aren't we stepping on dead bodies all day, if others that are not witnesses are bad association.
Legacy
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EndofMysteries
hi Legacy -
That quote you put in the watchtower is a flat out lie on their part. I know this from personal experience, here is how....
I have some family who are still in and they are well advanced in years. They didn't plan for retirement, and one did mostly service, so didn't get work credits. They are on SSI disability, which is under 1,000 per month and medicaid. They barely have enough to survive. One needs major dental work, medicaid won't cover dental, so they had many teeth pulled and could barely eat. Not them nor family had 10,000 to get them fixed. I called bethel on their behalf, explained that due to being discouraged to save for retirement and do service fulltime since they would never reach this age, they listened and now they are in dire straits and can't get help. Asked if bethel maybe has dentist onsite or something who could help or if they could do anything. They said sorry, we don't help any members out financially in any sort of way, nor for medical or anything. The most they can do is tell the local elders, but the local elders told them the same thing and said it's a family responsibility, ask other relatives for help. (all the other jw relatives are broke, and they shun/don't talk to the worldly ones).
They do NOT help their own, let alone others. The disaster thing is only done because it makes them money and maybe a requirement to be called a charity. THey get free labor and donated materials then ask those they help to charge their homeowners insurance as if it was done by paid labor.
Those who worked in bethel their whole lives washing windows when they get old are cut loose with no help, if they hit retirement age, since they wouldn't have had a decent or any income, will get close to nothing.
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prologos
start with NOTSUREWHERETOGO No.1 and work it into all the great suggestions that followed, and keep the power hungry, power brokers at bay.
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EdenOne
Ok, here's what I think:
First and foremost: Admit to all past mistakes, repent and publicly ask for God's forgiveness.
a) Abandon the 'blood doctrine' ban regarding blood transfusions and storing own blood for later use. Like many other things, leave it as a matter of personal choice.
b) Abandon the "two hopes" theology. There's only ONE hope for Christians, the heavenly hope. There won't be eternal life on Earth, although God will change this planet into a place where righteousness will be prevalent.
c) All are to partake on the bread and wine.
d) Door-to-door preaching isn't a requirement. Reporting preaching work, measuring members' spirituallity according to field service cancelled.
e) Drop the shunning policy upon those who are disfellowshipped from the congregation.
f) Women can teach in the congregation
g) Drop 1914 as a "significant year" in prophecy. Acknowledge that most prophecies in the Bible have already been fulfilled in the past. Abandon the apocaliptic tone and adopt a more "Christian Lifestyle" approach.
h) Encourage individual members to be socially engaged to better the lives of others in the local community.
i) Encourage members to get the best possible education, and better themselves so that they can better serve God and Christ and be useful to their families and the society at large.
j) Drop the episcopal, vertical-oriented structure of the organization. Instead, adopt a more presbyterial/congregational horizontal model, where each congregation is given a significant measure of autonomy to choose those who take the lead amongts themselves and how local matters should be decided locally.
k) There should be a regular synod where doctrinal matters are decided, with each congregation choosing who will represent them in that synod. This should be a non-permanent arrangement that would only be called when the need arise.
l) There should be a minimum organization, mostly to handle administrative affairs, publications, etc that concern the common good of the congregations world-wide. This organization should not decide on matters of doctrine or discipline. This, of course, would mean to abandon the "Governing Body" arrangement.
m) Each congregation or groups of congregation should engage in charitable works for the benefit of the community.
n) There should be only one congregational gathering per week. This would be centered around a meal (Christian supper), with a simposium part before.
o) Quit the "we are the sole true religion" mindframe. Christianity is the true religion, we are one among many in the household of the Lord.
Eden