There are a couple of long threads going right now about evolution & abortion.
If evolution were true, how could there be any basis for morality?
Are Evolution & Morality Mutually Exclusive?
by shadow 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cofty
It is true and yet we make moral judgements. Go figure.
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shadow
Then moral judgments do not exist except as delusions. There is no reason for any individual human to care about another one other than for satisfaction of the individual's needs or wants.
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bohm
This hinge on how you define morality and what you are willing to accept as a basis; it is my experience those terms can be very slippery.
There can be a basis for morality because other humans exist and they are just like us. If we care about other humans, there are objective things we should and should not do. In addition to this, game theory put limits to which types of societies/types of interaction which is stable/beneficial and so on.
The common objection is to ask what we should do if we have a person who do not care about other humans and refuse to accept their well-being as a basis for morality. What can we tell such a person? Strictly speaking, I do not see how we could convince him. If we have a person who do not care about logic, how could we convince him to use logic? At the end of the day, there need to be some common ground to have any sensible discussion.
The equivalent situation is a person who do not care about God. God might tell him: "I am the ultimate standard of God" and the person might say: "I do not care about good. I do not care about you. Whats my basis for morality?".
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bohm
shadow: Then moral judgments do not exist except as delusions. There is no reason for any individual human to care about another one other than for satisfaction of the individual's needs or wants.
Well shadow, you certainly seem like a giant ball of fun to be around...
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bohm
shadow: shadow: Then moral judgments do not exist except as delusions. There is no reason for any individual human to care about another one other than for satisfaction of the individual's needs or wants.
I want to add, if you really need God to be moral, if you really truly feel like what you wrote above, I think there is good reason to think you are a psychopat. Nobody else I know feel like that.
Think about it.
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shadow
It seems to me that the "morality" of evolution should dictate that the individual does what benefits self. Why put community above self unless it benefits self?
If an attempt were made to apply to a community, then it would make sense to cull the herd of non-producers like elderly or disabled.
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shadow
bohm: "basis for morality because other humans exist and they are just like us"
Yes, and all of us are going to die and turn to worm food. So why should any human give a crap about any other human? Isn't the logical thing to do is make the most of brief time here? Sense of morality is just some defective chemicals in brain.
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bohm
Shadow: It seems to me that the "morality" of evolution should dictate that the individual does what benefits self.
Okay there is a good amount of category error going on here.
Firstly, what evolution program us to think from we are born is different from how we *ought* to think. For instance we have an intuitive sence of physics which is often wrong, especially when we need to make descisions about physics in rotating frames. Nobody would argue our intuitive notion of physics *ough* to triumpf what we are able to arrive at through reason.
But even restricting us to what evolution program us to do you get everything wrong. There is no reason to think evolution program us to be selfish and only do what benefit ourselves. At a very basic level you might ask what happens to the person who eat his children - how likely is it he pass on his genes?
An even more relevant example is what happens in a small tribe to the person who is selfish and has a reputation for being selfish. How likely are they to help him if he get ill or his children gets ill?
Read some evolutionary game theory. This is basic stuff.
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bohm
Shadow: So why should any human give a crap about any other human? Isn't the logical thing to do is make the most of brief time here? Sense of morality is just some defective chemicals in brain.
I have already answered this.