there's not a single true prophecy in the bible, so you're fighting over a moot point.
plesase help me: examples of true prophets being wrong
by nonjwspouse 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
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nonjwspouse
Jgnaut, interesting read on Ezekiel thought he conclusion is that his prohacy was proven more accurate, tha inaccurate. Especially with more modern discoveries of writings.
Alsio interesting persepctive on Jesus.
I was writing this to try to predict what my husband would try to use as an inaccurate "true" prophet. So far I have not come across one w he could use with any meat to the arguement, unless like Billy points out, it is to blame the person who listens and the "prophicy/prediction whatever the WT refuses to call it" was a incorrect/old light" (false) one so it is a fault of the listener according to the Wt.
Backseatdevil, Doug, I also see ehat you are saying, so any prophets were written about or referred to after the fact. prophecy in hind site is 20/20 huh? Doug thank you for the link! I downloaded it.
A proclaimer this is exactly what I am trying to battle, the term " false expectation" as being synonomous with "channeling gods words though inperfect men".
Prologos I believe I am agreeing it is the outcome, results of listening and believing the false prophets that is to be paid attention to.
Crazy guy believe me when I tell you, this is an o ngoing years long effot by me to try to get him to educate himself. He admitted yesterday he didn't even know what the Trinity was, and was shocked his nephew and myself believed in it" FOR REAL????? lt is only a basic doctrine of the WT to disagree with the trinity as pagan teaching and th trinity is constantly being bashed and called evil.
So I used this as a tactic to get him to read other material. I wanted him to read what the other really churches believe the trinity is. ( not the WT version of a three headed God) I am researching and compiling. With a clear understanding to him I am noin no way trying to change his mind, but want to show him the reality of what the OTHER Churches believe. he seemd very open to that. No JW bashing or arguments at all, just factual info.
rebel8 that is my go to site, but no his at all. I know theJW failed prophacies could fill a room! His mind is still trapped inside the WT cage. I am hoping to help provide a key.
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skubrick
The first thing you need to do is get out of that old twisted mindset. What is happening is your falling into their way of thinking.
"you see there have been other true prophets in the bible that have been wrong with their prophecies"
you are not suppose to use examples in the bible of what not to do, as proof that your the gods modern day people.
with that logic you could point out any wrongdoing in the bible and say "see gods chosen people back then made mistakes too", that would prove any religion safe as gods chosen religion, because it would even show its ok to go to war, like gods "chosen race" did back then.
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kepler
True prophets being wrong?
How do you determine a true prophet? Someone tells you he's a true prophet - so don't believe your eyes?
The best example of a discrepancy is Daniel. He never was one - or at least he didn't start out as one in the OT, if he existed at all, other than a vehicle of getting the word out during the Maccabees Revolt.
If you look at the TaNaKh, the Jewish Old Testament, it is divided into three parts: the Law, Prophets, and Writings.
Guess where Daniel resides.
Wrong, Writings.
This is not a recent development. Jerome in translating the OT and New into Latin comments on this in 4th Century AD. In other words, it was understood from the beginning and conveniently lost. Ditto for Josephus when he gives his definition of a prophet in Apion. Not familiar with it. Should read it, then. And then read Daniel 9:1.
Daniel seemed to have a very narrow window for foreseeing things, since he was very inaccurate about the past. Never could keep straight who he had been working for or who the new management was. The only other references I know of to Darius the Mede are Greek writers Thucydides and Herodotus who thought ALL Persian kings were Medes. They thought they beat the Medes and their king at Marathon. Check who was in charge in Persia then.
I won't even get started on all the false prophecies of cities being destroyed.
So why is Daniel considered a prophet? Because certain INTERPRETERS of holy writ find it convenient to their OWN beliefs, not because there is such a thing as true prophets. That's circular reasoning.
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Oh Gawd
True prophets being wrong?....this is easy
Since there is no God there are no prophets. Trying to argue with someone about why your lie is more believable than their lie makes no sense.
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nonjwspouse
Skubrick, very interesting line of thoght forme. Iknow i have been imersing myself into the entire WT teachings ( with the mindet of "WTF") But still, immersing myself. learnng the lingo to use to try to open a small window of doubt. However, your reminder is well timed, I must be careful of my OWn thoughts as well. This cult is powerful and crafty in the mind control.
I will now stop all attempts to try to disprove his " imperfect men chosen by God" and trying to find fault in what I thought was the fact that Gods true prophets in the Bible only spoke truth when it was from God, but behaved in some pretty bad ways many times. You are right. I fell into that trap. me trying to defend. It is HE that needs to defend the GB and why he believes them to be the only chosen true channel of Gods word.
kelper thank you for the direction for me read. Very interesting point of view!
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Ding
In an effort to make their failed prophecies seem unimportant, the WT claims that Bible prophets got things wrong too.
The WT cites Nathan telling David it was okay to build the temple. Then God told him to go back and tell David it was Solomon's job to do that, not David's. But Nathan wasn't claiming to speak for God in the first instance, or if he was, God corrected him immediately. He didn't get "new light" many, many years later.
The WT also cites Jonah warning the Ninevites they would be destroyed in 40 days but it didn't happen. Yet Jonah later says he knew that if they repented God would relent. The Ninevites understood that too because they did repent.
The WT also cites the apostles thinking Jesus was about to restore the kingdom to Israel. But they didn't teach that as fact. They simply asked Jesus IF he was about to do that.
On the one hand, the WT claims that the Bible is infallible and that the true prophets were inspired by Jehovah's spirit. On the other hand, they claim that those prophets made mistakes in their prophecies. In other words, the WT tries to have it both ways.
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BackseatDevil
SIDE NOTE: The 'false prophet' of Revelation 13 looks like a lamb but speaks like a dragon. So I don't know about you, but the description does NOT apply to... let's say the Catholic Church. LOL.
What religions do you know look like lambs but speak like dragons?
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
non,
If I understand your predicament, it sounds similar with my parents when they try to use the "they're just imperfect men and have made some mistakes in the past." Rather than arguing, I eagerly agree, saying, "I completely agree that they are imperfect and have made mistakes. And they're still imperfect and are making mistakes still today. Based on their track record, I would be making a mistake if I treated them like prophets, because they're very likely to have to overturn the current teachings, perhaps in the very near future."
Since you're nonJW, you may not quite be able to use my tactics. Rather than approaching a discussion with my parents as a me against them, I phrase it as us deserving better answers from WT. My parents aren't comfortable with the questions, but they understand and respect my point of view.