I think my faith might be returning. Feeling very confused.

by jambon1 95 Replies latest jw friends

  • OneGenTwoGroups
    OneGenTwoGroups

    1. Which Bible canon do you think is correct? Protestant? Catholic? or Orthodox? if you prefer one over the other, why?

    2. Do you accept the Johaninne comma at 1 John 5:7 as inspired of God? if yes why? if no why?

    3. Do you accept Mark 16:9-20 as inpsired of God? if yes why? if no why?

    4. Are you ok with humans owning other humans as property (slavery)? Because Yahweh is: Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21

    5. Are you ready to defend this Scripture: " Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." - Numbers 31: 17,18?

    Are any of thes points news to you or are you already familiar with them?

  • Zoos
    Zoos

    Sounds like you're in a pretty good place despite the confusion. Just roll with it.

    This time let YOUR understanding of the bible lead you instead of having your understanding dictated to you. If you get stumped on something, ask around. Get different opinions. Keep what makes sense and toss out the rest... always ready to reevaluate later if necessary.

    No rules.

    No time slips.

    No theocratic BS.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    The physical body requires feeding. Likewise, the spiritual needs which humans have, also require an upbuilding source. Sadly, most people are unaware/ignore the proddings of their spiritual side, until some event in their life awakens them to the fact that life is not just the physical!

    I've seen a famous Brit in tears because she had just witnessed the aurora borealis, and other individuals who were breathless with awe after swimming with dolphins and said that it was a spiritual experience.

    If you have a spiritual side, nurture it in every way possible!

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    Hi jambon1 here are some thoughts your post caused in me.

    Belief is very mysterious thing in many ways. Everyone has a belief in something and it is that foundation belief that informs the rest of a person’s beliefs. Life, and the information it contains will get sorted as a function of that belief. Even atheists have a core internal belief. In some cases it will be the view that God doesn’t exist, or that science is the only way to knowledge and that there is only this one form of materialistic knowledge. Others though have the abiding belief that an intelligence of some sort must be somehow the foundation of all that makes sense because sense is only ever a function of a mind, at terms of understating at least. In both cases it is belief that sorts where one looks for evidence in support of a view, and how one categorises evidence that contradicts or affirms or both the core belief.

    It is true that some turn to religion or spirituality as an escape route from pain or grief, or for some other reason that is nothing to do really with the core belief of that person. Those core beliefs can often be suppressed to the extent that such a person doesn’t even open their own internal box to either acknowledge or examine what they are in some cases. Some turn to atheism as well for comfort and escape to the contrary of whatever their internal belief happens to be. So there can be a genuine core belief of theism or atheism, even though some with either of these might have fooled themselves that they are of the opposite belief.

    To what extent belief is informed by what is learned and what is learnt is informed by belief is a very complex question which rarely gets any treatment, even though is it of profound importance to all human beings. One might argue that what is believed is a function of truth, truth being contained in how the physical universe works. In other words, core belief is from DNA influencing the brains function which provides groundwork to sort information gained in life. So some people might be spiritual because they inherited it.

    On the other hand though, one can also argue that what is perceived to be true is also a function of belief. To this end, the double slit experiment in quantum mechanics can be laid out to show how observation affects the things being observed. Or one can point out that measuring and observing the universe, which is made from the same stuff and affected by the same forces as the instruments being used to make the measurements means that an impartial truly outside view of evidence is impossible. Plus the measuring devices might influence that being measured, considering they are essentially part of it, if all is forces and material. This would mean that for those who are atheists, they must make an assumption at this point that there is nothing outside of the universe.

    The semantic arguments over what as absence of belief really means in regard to the word atheist then starts at this point. Transversely what belief really is becomes relevant here also.

    All this looks like a perfect chicken and egg scenario of which came first, belief or a world view, a world view or belief? Of course when one considers that even the brain itself is made of the same stuff as the universe, which is probably why we can understand it, the question if anything else exists other than it becomes even more troublesome.

    What we call sense and logic may not even apply, or be recognised as such if they do apply in a familiar way if we saw anything that might exist outside of the physical brain and universe. Perhaps then what a searcher for truth needs to look for is the exact opposite then of what we think we should look for. Things then that have evidential criteria that do not make rational sense, might be what has to be looked for. The evidential criteria could not be too strict, less it is part of an already existing world view, but not too wide as to render the word evidence meaningless.

    If truth is the target, then a deep knowledge of what knowledge, logic, evidence, rationality and belief actually are is probably going to be essential. Then we might know ourselves better and know where to look next for answers and what an answer really is. To use common parlance, I would look for supernatural or scientific phenomena that doesn’t make sense to common sense. Here I would say is a good place to look albeit carefully and cautiously for answers to the spiritual questions. If this includes the bible then so be it but it might not, or it might include other religious book of other faiths as well. The key is to not close a book at the very least, before it is read.

    I hope this is of some value to you jambon1.

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    jambon1

    You must tread very carefully, as having left behind the Jehovah's Witnesses set up you have a gap in your life. Please be careful how you full that gap. There are many people, even on this forum, with their own version of truth, who would have you join them.

    Everything that The Searcher described a couple of posts back were real experiences in the physical universe. Reality is magical and natural beauty is awesome, but belief in invisible beings is another matter entirely.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    I totally understand what you are experiencing. I also do not believe the facts support the idea of a creator, but somehow I find myself wanting to pray anyway. Sometimes I think there must be something more, I even attended church for a while and enjoyed it. There is something about taking time to feed my spiritual self, to be with others who recognize a spiritual need that just feels right. I cannot go back to the rigid thinking of the JWs, but Athiesm alone also doesn't work for me.

    I don't know what the answer is, I think it is something we each have to work out for ourselves, we each have a spiritual path to follow, whether that be in the form of a religion or just a simple appreciation of the wonders to science and nature, or maybe just a hope that mankind can solve the problems facing us. Maybe Athiesm is just a stepping stone on your path, but not the final destination?

    Food for thought.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    While I am on a completely different path, I don't jump all over people that want to be spiritual without religion.

    I learned so much when I finally allowed myself to google "Jehovah's Witnesses."

    You can do the same to find aids on your path with your particular concern.

    I googled "Books on spirituality without religion" and there was a whole search section at Amazon that came up: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=spirituality+without+religion&tag=googhydr-20&index=stripbooks&hvadid=32980996105&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=273849408692291322&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_66d42st0sk_b

    A good one that I will look into when it is released in later 2014 is Sam Harris' Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion

    But that one will undoubtedly include no need for belief. You will choose different books to go down your path.

    I am also going to look into Buddhism Without Beliefs : a Contemporary Guide to Awakening by Stephen Batchelor.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I took a religious history course that included higher criticism as part of a New Testament course. It was very strange to read Bible books in consecutive verses rather than jumping all over the places and actually studying WT literature. Many main stream religions study the Bible. I had no idea they did until I enrolled in the course. A major Protestant seminary, Union Theological, was located across the street from my college. I was too busy during college but I used the resources when I did have time. Once the subway was out and I stumbled upon the Episcopal Church. It was thrilling. I was able to retain certain beliefs and jettison the Witness mind set. I decided to enroll in more seminary courses. Union was a long commute so I attended classes at the local Episcopal seminary which is conviently located across town. To my shock, the students were Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, and even some Eastern Orthodox.

    The seminaries save money with cross-registration. Questions were important. It was as far away from the Witnesses as you can imagine. Of course, your interests may be different. I find it strange how I found a community by happenstance. Public schools don't usually teach comparative religion. The particular Episcopal church I attended is a center of ecumenical activity. People attend from all over the world. It is next to Columbia University so academics are stressed.

    You should follow your interests. Don't let the Witnesses define religion for you. It is good to see what is out there.

  • scotoma
    scotoma

    There is a strong need in humans for transcendence.

    Once you get life working properly and your needs are taken care of there is a desire for something more.

    Think Bono, Bill Gates and others who choose to occupy themselves with helping others.

    You don't jus want the "good" life. You want a life that is "good" for something.

  • Lozhasleft
    Lozhasleft

    There is nothing to recommend organised religions, but everything to recommend having a personal relationship with Christ. He says his sheep will KNOW his voice...Let Him direct you, not men...

    Loz x

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