I think my faith might be returning. Feeling very confused. (page 6)

PelicanBeach

Jambon1,

Speaking of Raymond Franz' books it is rarely mentioned that he maintained his faith in God and Christ. Now, that does not mean that we should follow his lead in that but it is food for thought. I believe James Penton and Carl Olof Jonsson (sp?) also have kept their faith, two men well known for their contributions exposing the JW religion.

I would hope that these men are given the respect and dignity of their own mind and conscience and not put down as somehow less wise than atheist xjws.

Pelican

cofty

Did they thoroughly examine all of their beliefs or were there some cherished ideas that were off-limits? I don't know.

KateWild

In spite of believing in a creator or certainly a god of some kind, I don't think I can wholeheartedly pursue faith at the moment.-J

I feel similar, yes I do believe in an intelligent Creator, but I don't believe in a specific religion, and I am a religious person. I am happy with this right now and enjoy the God vs Atheist debates.

Kate xx

Violia

book I read that really opened by eyes was Karen Armstrong. She is not related to Garner Ted Armstrong. nor is she an xjws . I read " The Battle for God. This one shows the battle that has happened to own or claim ownership of God. She has several other very interesting books.

sorry about the underline, can't seem to turn it off.

http://www.amazon.com/Karen-Armstrong/e/B000AQ72VE/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1387399792&sr=8-2-e

you who are intent on taking away someone's faith are a sad bunch. We all left jws and now have gained critical thinking skills but you now declare that only you have the real truth. Atheism has become the new "truth" and I do not buy it anymore than I buy most organized religions version of God. I recall a debate I posted somewhere between an atheist and a Christan and it was actually funny b/c the Christan said- he believed in God but thought He had a lot of Unauthorized Fan clubs -or crazy fans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Armstrong

cofty

We all left jws and now have gained critical thinking skills but you now declare that only you have the real truth . - violia

Many people seem to abandon critical thinking once they leave the cult.

Thinking critically about the unique claims of the Watchtower is a good start but why stop there? All I am saying is make sure you have thoroughly examined all the evidence that is available. If you still want to have some sort of faith, make sure it is compatible with reality. Otherwise you will spend the rest of your life hiding from information.

To believe in an inerrant bible or in creationism or in end-times prophecy is to build your life on a delusion.

PelicanBeach

Cofty,

Are you saying that to believe in a creator God is delusion or to believe in the Genesis 1 account of creation is delusion? Or do you equate one with other finding no room for any other reasonable possibility?

adamah

We all left jws and now have gained critical thinking skills but you now declare that only you have the real truth . - violia

Cofty said- Many people seem to abandon critical thinking once they leave the cult.

Heck, I'd say it's even worse than that, since just because someone gets kicked out of the JWs doesn't mean they're handed critical thinking skills as a "parting gift" on the way out the door! If anyone was a JW (and born-in's deserve some slack here, since they didn't have a choice in the matter), they're starting from a deficit, and simply exiting the religion doesn't mean they're somehow now ahead of the game, since they have to make up for lost time just to break even.

Instead, people need to put in some thought and effort to develop critical thinking, or they often simply find another delusional faith-based belief system to fill the vacuum in their heads in order to satisfy their unmet emotional needs.

Band on the Run

It seems that so many of us feel that only our belief or lack of belief is the correct path for other people. We can customize our belief for ourselves. There is no right or wrong. Spirituality is a very personal matter. No one should have to justify their journey to anyone else. The day we do so is the day we become active Witnessses again. Personal psychology, aesthetics, and culture are only some of the factors in making a choice.

Mainstream Christianities aren't obsessed with rules the way fundamentalists are.

I've read both Marcus Borg and Karen Armstrong. It amazes me how these books sell.

cofty

PelicanBeach - I'm simply saying that if we feel the need to include a deity in our universe we have to first take account of reality.

All living things evolved from a common ancestor over millions of years. There is nothing, no device or complexity, that requires supernatural explanations. Creationism in all its forms, including the "Intelligent Design" movement is a total delusion.

There was no Adam and Eve, no fall from original perfection.

Some intellectually honest christians can embrace all of those facts and still find room for god. Francis Collins and Ken Miller are good examples. They are both eminent scientists who hold to "Theistic Evolution"...

Similarly its a delusion to put faith in the bible as a communication from a deity. To do that is to ignore far too many facts to the contrary.

adamah

BOTR said- It seems that so many of us feel that only our belief or lack of belief is the correct path for other people. We can customize our belief for ourselves. There is no right or wrong.

I always get a kick out of when Xians argue for moral relativism, as if they lost the plot and think Jesus and God are OK with that all-accepting attitude of "hey, do whatever floats your boat, and it's A-OK with us!" I mean, didn't Jesus warn about those who twist his policies to fit their will, and those of "luke-warm" faith?

BOTR said- Spirituality is a very personal matter. No one should have to justify their journey to anyone else. The day we do so is the day we become active Witnessses again. Personal psychology, aesthetics, and culture are only some of the factors in making a choice.

How about the biggie, AKA reality? Where does the reality of God's existence fit into your teleological (ends-justifed) decision on whether to belief in God or not? I mean, shouldn't that be the MOST-important factor here, as well?

I think my faith might be returning. Feeling very confused.

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