if we don't all unite, we may win a few battles but Watchtower will win the WAR.

by excaliber 116 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Xanthippe

  

  Narcissistic Supply
• 

  LostGeneration

  Its absurd to think the we can bring about the end of the WT, or in essence the belief system behind it.

  People are going to always think they can get something for nothing. Its part of human nature.

  The WT uses the greed inherent in people's psyche to their advantage. They offer EVERLASTING LIFE in exchange for temporary servitude. That is the bottom line. Can any of us offer that? Of course not.

  I used to think I would get a petting zoo and endless buffets filled with fruit platters as far as the eye could see, and until I was willing to take a hard and honest look at my belief system there was no persuading me otherwise.

  That is why if the Watchtower went bankrupt today and the GB killed themselves off tomorrow, they belief system would continue. Sure it might split off into a few other groups, some would be just as damaging as the WT, others might not be. And a few would trickle out of the belief system, finally free. But by a few I mean less than 10%.

  There is an old saying about horses and water that comes to mind, frontal attacks on the WT and its believers do not work.
• 

  ekruks

  I am being polite, because that's how I am, and also I realise we are all stressed by our experiences, many of us depressed, and I don't want to hurt someone.... but to be open with you guys, you are very pessimistic, glass half empty. If you were alive a century ago, you would say that the church would always dominate the world, while outside America and Africa, the church is dead - except for some fanatical diehards in Poland and Ireland, Europe hates it. People with you attitude were so wrong! I bet 10 years ago you said America would never have a black president. People with you attitude were so wrong! If you don't want to get involved, fine, don't, your pessimism would kill the enthusiasm needed to power a movement, but there's no need to be offensive.
  
  JWs are not generally narcissists. There is such anger and bitterness here, with people making absurd claims that stop us being taken seriously, and make any curious JWs think we are nutters. The first time I saw this forum, I saw some of the utter crap on here, one idiot writing as if only JWs had been sued for child rape, when the Catholic church has a far bigger problem. I didn't return to the forum for a while, and who knows who else you brush away by making wild angry claims or insulting all JWs.

  What you have to realise is that any JW who was not born-in, ended up being there because they were not 'normal'. There are various reasons for not fitting in with the mainstream, and yes mainstream is sort of a cult of general society, but generally people are vulnerable to a cult because their life is in a mess, they are desperate, probably have some issues. Some people feel insecure and want the social club but are horrified by the morals, while others are repulsed by the worlds disgusting conduct, but are hurt when the spiritual sanctuary is not home to morals.

  To different people, the organisation stood for different things, so yeah, we didn't get on that well, and that hurt us. We are whining like bickering school kids, with no empathy for others, we are all just born into some messed up world and struggling to get by the best we can, without a clue, and no wonder people desire a guilding parent-like support so much they dream up a father-like god. It's one think to criticise cults, but it's another to be rude to fellow victims - it's like a concentration camp suvivor saying "anyway I'm better than the rest" - what would you make of that?

  We need to stop pretend all JWs are evil, and realise we are all just screwed up, that's what got us there, and we ALL need to find other help. Many of you obviously haven't faced issues, but would prefer to take it out on the JWs. The structure of the organisation is wrong, it's a cult, it's messed up, but even the leaders are so brainwashed, they don't think straight, but it's a jump to call them evil. Many of them love the Bible to bits, and as crazy a book it is, we can understand people cling to it because they are scared of the immoral world with such violence.
  
  If anyone on here is trying to be a legend, it's not the exJWs who want to draw the public's attention to our plight, to help those in come out, to stop people going in in the first place..... it's the opinionated dreamers who pretend our good chats on this forum are bringing down the organisation, while slagging off those who try. The organisation are a little nervous of apostates, but it's not as if 50% of JWs leave a year because of it. They also are fearful of universities, any job outside self-employed lonely window cleaning, etc.. Basically any contact outside the chosen channel. But what really draws people away is sex; I respect the encouragement of family values, but people often fall to the pleasure, it's human nature, though so are many things I wouldn't promote. Most people only turn to apostasy after getting caught for fornication.

  My suggestion never has been to bombard the "happy" JW inside the organisation, because they will see it as persecution. People outside do know who we are, we bash their doors, and they know we are a religion, that we are not the typical child raping church, and so from there, it can be reveal to them that we are weird. People would watch the film if it WASN'T someone's lifestory, and didn't had elements anyone, exJW or not, could identify with - obviously you chaps are not writers! If we may people outside more aware, more understanding, they may be more patient with JWs, so we will reduce the faith-building perscution. However, what I have mostly suggested is we find some way to make the truth more available to any JW looking, and have a programme to help them out when they want out. I never said that all exJWs are old CDs unknown in a cabinet somewhere in some office block - I said that is this forum; what we know must be shared.
  
  You guys looking for excuses, I bet you were like that with the ministry, hiding when it rained! Shame on you! Your attitude is "I got out, to hell with the rest, screw them, I'm ok haha".... don't you have even the smallest amount of empathy for some poor misguided soul somewhere who is about to embark of the same years of hell following baptism?? Don't you wish someone had warned you before it was too late? Sure life is crap, and we can't fix the world, but doesn't mean we just give up. Are you the kind of person who looks out for number one and your family, and thats it? Sure we are disillusioned, but where is your sense of community??
• 

  yadda yadda 2

  Ekruks, most on here are of the view that JW's are the victims of the Watchtower's authoritarian leadership. It's not the membership we are bashing but the high control and abusive policies. A huge amount of real harm and suffering has been produced by these teachings and is still being produced, primarily the blood policy, handling of paedophiles policy, and shunning policy. These are heinous policies that deserve to be attacked.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Most people only turn to apostasy after getting caught for fornication.

  I bet 10 years ago you said America would never have a black president.

  I saw some of the utter crap on here, one idiot writing as if only JWs had been sued for child rape, when the Catholic church has a far bigger problem.

  We need to stop pretend all JWs are evil,

  Many of them love the Bible to bits, and as crazy a book it is, we can understand people cling to it because they are scared of the immoral world with such violence.

  I bet you were like that with the ministry, hiding when it rained! Shame on you.....ekruks

  Your a walking advertisement for the WBT$..You still believe the crap they taught you..

  Your not ready to make a movie!..

  Johnny Depp has his costume from his last movie,he wanted to be Tonto in your movie..

  He just called and said he`s out..Danny Divito is out too..

  .

  .......................All you have left is a Retired Magician.

  ...........................Who Juggles Empty Beer Bottles..

  .....................

  ......................................................................................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  LisaRose

  what I have mostly suggested is we find some way to make the truth more available to any JW looking, and have a programme to help them out when they want out.

  If you do a find on Jehovah's Witness discussion, this site come up first. How much more available can it be? The answers are readily available to any JW with an internet connection, which is most people in the developed world. The growth rate in these countries is very low, mostly as a result of born ins and not very many of them. Look, we are not trying to be party poppers, it's just that experience has shown us that people will not be open to the TTATT until they are ready. Ask any of us here who rushed to share our findings with family or friends.

  And calling us all whiners is not going to do your cause any good. Yes, we like to complain, but for most of us, it's just a bit of venting, things people who have never been JWs wouldn't understand. I am actually quite a happy person, as I know is true of many others. The rest have more recently left and are working through legitimate issues. That's most of the reason I stay here, to help those who have recently left.

  Look if you have a plan, share it, but vague descriptions and talk of revolution aren't going to impress the folks here. Yeah, we are a tough group. We got blindsided by the Watchtower, so once burned, twice shy, and all that. You aren't the first to propose such a thing. There is actually a group that did it. Do a search on AAWA, but don't tell them you heard about it here, there is some issues having to do with their implementation, so it's a sore subject here. It was a perfect example of how such a thing can go wrong, so don't say I didn't warn you.
• 

  Violia

  LIE--WTS LIE ONLY THE IMMORAL LEAVE THE ORG. LIE LIE LIE

  Most people only turn to apostasy after getting caught for fornication.
• 

  punkofnice

  As noble as the OP's intentions are, I've heard it all before. The WBT$ hasn't fallen yet despite anonymous or anyone else.

  As Outlaw observed, JW's don't matter to people in the real world.
• 

  Phizzy

  The WT is an evil Corporation, no doubt.

  But there are far bigger evils in terms of size, and in terms of the acts perpetrated.

  If we were to unite in a cause that would be effective against these big, organized evils, be they simply commercial organizations or religious, our efforts should be in the area of Education.

  Once people are given the tools to use, the True facts, Critical Thinking skills, and how to make a correct Moral judgement most of these Evils will fail.

  Education of a high calibre is the Key.
• 

  Xanthippe

  You guys looking for excuses, I bet you were like that with the ministry, hiding when it rained! Shame on you! Your attitude is "I got out, to hell with the rest, screw them, I'm ok haha".... don't you have even the smallest amount of empathy for some poor misguided soul somewhere who is about to embark of the same years of hell following baptism?? Don't you wish someone had warned you before it was too late?

  Ekruks, people start looking for information online when they are ready. I am happy to support people who come here and sympathize with them by telling my similar story. I can't bring down this organisation but I can be here for the people who have had enough. I didn't look for excuses not to go on the ministry, I pioneered for 10 loooong years. I do empathize with the misguided souls stuck in there including my siblings and nephews who are wasting there lives in it but they will not look at activist apostate's messages. They wont, I know, because I didn't.

  Sure life is crap, and we can't fix the world, but doesn't mean we just give up. Are you the kind of person who looks out for number one and your family, and thats it? Sure we are disillusioned, but where is your sense of community??

  Many of us here do the same thing with the problems in the world. We donate every week to charities and do voluntary work. Don't assume that we don't care. My sense of community is evident on my bank statement. I would love to have spent my life actively working for a charity out in a developing country instead of wasting my time pioneering but there's no sense crying over spilled milk. I am not disillusioned and I don't think life is crap, you do. The world is better that it's ever been and if you don't believe me you should read more history. Take care.