if we don't all unite, we may win a few battles but Watchtower will win the WAR.

by excaliber 116 Replies latest jw friends

  • excaliber
    excaliber

    Adama, I have no control over what someone else did. I am very serious about this and I WILL do what ive said. If everyone that has activist ideals gets automatically thrown in the oh he is just new or naive or like someone else category.

    Then activists like me will just have to join other already established groups. Anonymous has no central structure so they can put as many in prison as they wish, it still wont stop us. Anonymous is not limited to only hacking.

    I have already found ways to contact them and get things started.

    Thanks for your thoughts

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    I think that the very fact their is a virtual minefeild of ex-jw sites that challenge, and critisize, and expose the WTB&TS has the most advantage. Why ? ,.because we are all different , we all have different likes and dislikes , if their were only one avenue to challenge the organization , you would have far fewer people taking up the cause .

    I sincerely beleive, the MORE sites that expose the WTB&TS the more success we will have , they will reach a far more bigger audience .

    smiddy

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    In order to unite, you would need to add boatloads of new rules. To take a "God doesn't like the washtowel" approach would leave out those who feel that God is the evil one--or those who simply believe that God doesn't exist at all. To avoid "offending" others, we would have to adopt strict political correctness that would nurf the freedom of speech, and it could end up as bad as the washtowel itself in that regard. Do we really want to abide by all those extra rules that would be necessary in that situation? Suppose 90% of us don't--where would that leave the forum?

    As was mentioned, the site is more to help those who are already fed up with the religion, or those contemplating joining and wish to do more research about what it does to people before joining. As such, people are going to hate that religion and/or much of what it does to people. And this forum does a nice job--at helping those who wish to leave, those who have already been disfellowshipped, and those who are around the religion (including new studies and unbelieving mates) to fit into mainstream society with all its differences.

    We cannot win against the washtowel simply by doing as the opening post suggested. The witlesses are witless--I don't call them witlesses for nothing. They deliberately stay away from any topic that disagrees with their own beliefs, and even if the LIE-ble itself (itself a document that is designed to enslave the masses) disagrees with the doctrines (and they claim to adhere to the LIE-ble more than anyone else), they disregard it. Those who are serious about staying in are going to stay in no matter what. If we wish to fight, forums are not the answer since the witlesses will simply ignore them. Petitions to get the religion banned in your location on the grounds of fraud, putting up a web site to expose the religion that the general public can research, and printing out material exposing the religion and leaving that around are better. If you are into spiritualism, you could try putting a curse on the whole religion.

    But, attempting to unite those on this forum are at best a waste of time and at worst destructive to what the forum is intended for. We are here to support others who are out or thinking of leaving or joining, and that includes discussing some of the wacky doctrines and what they have done to harm people. You had a miserable childhood, so have most of the other born-ins. You have had to throw away things or modify your work to reduce your income, many others have also had to do those things. You had to do more despite a medical condition or you have developed a condition, others have had the same things or seen others in the congregations in the same pickle. The forum is for discussing such, as well as bashing the religion for doing this to people. The courts and petitions are for fighting the legal battles.

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    I threw my christmas tree on the curb yesterday. and some JW came by and didn't offer literature and talked like they were from another church. They commented on my "DIE HARD DISCIPLE" sign on my door and i told them my wife was a JW..... They asked her name and i said she doesn't live here and I have little kids that i'm trying to keep away from the JW's.(they were playing in the background) But i added ....."You guys are doing a great job" and I HAD A BIG SMILE AND GAVE THEM 2 BIG THUMBS UP. They had a really strange look on their face. If they told me outright that they were JW'.s i would have said. MAN THAT IS ONE DANGEROUS CULT YOU SHOULD RUN AWAY AS FAST AS PoSSIBLE

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    For that reason I think it is important for us to come together as one and war against Watchtower.

    Really and how do you purpose we do that, I think the informative information about this destructive and corrupt cult

    on the inter-net individually by people who've been involved in this religion is doing a pretty good job .

    .

    The WTS/JWS is now in a war with itself battling revealing truth and information exposed through open and

    accessible media like the Net.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    You say you have a novel plan. A plan that no other protest org around the world has ever managed to conceive. Your statements are vague. I want to kow details, such as a mission statement, finances, and your secret plan. Perhaps it is worthy. When someone first mentioned Obama's name in my Democratic group as a potential presidential candidate, I started to laugh out loud. He had almost no experience on a national or even a state level. His paper credentials were impressive but so are mine. I watched the modern civil rights movement unfolding in the South on national TV every night. My home city while Northern was an important staging area. I attended many events in person. Well, the man was elected. Mandela left prison. Another hopeless cause in my book.

    My reaction to large groups has to do with involvement with radical politics. The people vying to be leaders ended up fighting each other. So much time was expended on who would have priority in the order of marches that little energy was left to fight the pro-Viet Nam people in Congress or the White House. How would leaders be selected? Would such an org be democratic? What form of democracy? I want to see more than a const'n. How do we deal with members who run back to the WT? How do you keep your secret technqiue from falling into the WT hands? You do realize that they have the financial means to hire private investigators who have spent time in the FBI and CIA.

    Something even worse than the WT could take its place. How do you change the mind set of relatively uneducated and gullible people? Do you force them to ask questions? People deciding to stop using this forum and become Witnesses again happen all the time.

    Your call to arms is too vague. I am no longer eighteen. My time in radical politics sent me to law school to be more efficient in protesting. I've read a lot of biographies of protest movement leaders from George Washington to Gandhi to Saul Alinksy's Rules for Radical. It may be sad or it may be wise but at my present age and knowledge, I can no longer raise my hand in a panther salute or hang out with SDS radicals. No, I demand a place at the seat of power. Winning cases and elections is so much more fun than being pure and losing all the time.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    I wonder how much money it would take to get jwfacts to show up on a google search and be near the top of the list every time? This maybe the best way to get things going.

  • Hecce
    Hecce

    A few years back his matter was extensively discussed in the Spanish Forum and it resulted in one of the biggest battles that I have ever seen.

    My opinion is that it will be great if possible but I am more inclined to the guerilla strategy.

  • XstuckX
    XstuckX

    If you're going to fight the JWs are you also ready to fight all other organized religion? I have no problem with someone who has FULL KNOWLEDGE of what they're getting into and still want to be one of them. I don't want to be one of them. The problem I have is most of the time people don't know how deep it is until it's too late.

  • ekruks
    ekruks

    " How do we deal with members who run back to the WT? How do you keep your secret technqiue from falling into the WT hands? "

    What do you mean? It might be tempting to torch Bethel, but I wouldn't recommend illegal activity as a bunch of amateurs like us would end up in prison and all efforts would be a waste - we are not trying to make some group like the IRA, so we don't need a way to deal with "members" who leave.

    To be a member, one simply has to be apostate; that's it, and have the common desire to protect the vulnerable from being preyed in by cults - JWs are generally born-in as innocent naive kids, or succomb to the brainwashing when there is tragedy in their life, the time people need help - this problem is deep, society is broken, I'm not saying we can fix that, human nature is warped, we all struggle and turn to vices. But just as those with drug or drink issues, help those that fell to such a vice and warn others of the dangers, we can warn people of cults.

    If someone turns to go back to the WT, you can't actually physically stop them, just as you can't imprison or tied up someone to stop someone drinking. Can't punish them, just as patience is required with those in the cult. It's an illness like depression but it can be overcome with kindness and a lot of patience - aggression will backfire; the bitterness on our forum backfires.

    We want to show people how hurt we are, we look for a symbol of how evil the organisation is, how cruel it is. We attack everything, ripping the WT up for blood, when that is in the Bible, carrying on so much about child abuse as if unique to the WT when that is found in churches too and even in other non-religious organisations such as orphanges, schools, even businesses. We get desperate, and our argument doesn't convince people, we just come over as bitter and exagerating, they just see us as traumatised (which yes we are!) There are very serious flaws with the organisation, we need a carefully-worded site that exposes that calmly, without bitterness, without the feel we are lashing out at anything in anger.

    We should focus on:

    A) Making the public more aware of cult dangers, so they avoid it - principally, we simple show JWs to be a cult; that doesn't even require discussing controversial issues like blood. By such awareness, insiders will hear more and feel more inclined to leave.... also encourage more understanding, because bullying suggest persecution which strengthens faith. There is stuff like SEO that can be done to help get stuff higher on Google (it's not that hard, though it's costly - I expect the WT spends thousands a month... at the very least, change this forum so that it doesn't have the same 'meta description' on every 'page'!), but we can simply tell people of a web address.

    The more important thing would be media attention, and not pointless articles, such as someone crying they were disfellowshipped for having sex outside marriage - it's a Christian religion, it's expected to be against premartial sex, there will be little sympathy, if you join a religion, you agree to a moral code; if you don't like the code, you leave. What needs to be shown is high it is in high-control. There will always be issues such as is the cult to blame or all religion, is it perverted to be gay, and so on, so the reason to focus on highlighting to people that JWs are high-control, that they like many fundamentalist groups prey on the weak, and leave other issues to conscience.

    B) Help people to make new lives when they get out the cult. Advice them on what to do, share stuff on mental health, stress, cult-recovery, PTSD, so people don't end up messed up with drink and drugs. The freemasons look after each other - imagine a network of apostates, who help each other up... a lot of born-ins had a crap education, and yes many people did, and many people also have stress problems due to a crap life, but we could support each other more, offer a job when one's available, etc.. they don't just help with work but with life.... like JWs are a community, look out for the old and the ill, maybe we could have some time. Drug addict recoverers mentor each other in soberness.

    There is no secret technique. If someone does some illegal that is their doing as individuals. We are not talking of having a governing body, or any democracy. There can be a short simple mission statement with what goal we unite behind, and then we work to that in whatever ways we feel right, but people could come together to work on projects. Everything at the moment is too loose, too all over the place, little collaboration.

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