The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

  • cofty
    cofty

    My only point at this stage is to reason with you that such facts might exist - Flamegrilled

    Consider a defense lawyer faced with defending somebody charged with the deaths of millions.

    He brings in countless character witnesses who testify how much the accused loved his mother and gave to charity.

    As for the actual accusations all he can offer is that there may be facts about why he did it that would put it in a new light. Despite every opportunity the lawyer never offers any clue as what these facts might be that would miraculously turn the atrocity into a virtue.

    You can't even hint at what these facts might be because you know that nothing could possibly turn the drowning of a qaurter of a million people into a perfect act of love.

  • besty
    besty

    @flamegrilled

    I like you - you seem to be lucid, which makes a pleasant change :-)

    The point is far more simple than that. We can acknowledge that it is possible that a higher being has a reason for doing something that appears unloving from our standpoint - but only because we have incomplete information.

    Most things are possible. That's why we invented probable.

    250k drowned people for no reason = christian bible god probably doesn't exist.

  • caliber
    caliber

    Cofty ...So far we have God is as murder, like a wife beater, like Josif Mengle , animal abuser ....have you tried a sadist ?

    Maybe you have inferred that also.. can you think of some new terms ?

  • cofty
    cofty

    Humbled - how does that relate to an omnipotent god choosing to leave a quarter of a million people to drown?

    You would not do it. You are more moral that the god of christianity.

  • cofty
    cofty

    can you think of some new terms ?

    Can you think of any answers?

  • Hummingbird001
    Hummingbird001

    So to theists, god's answer to why he didn't intervene during the tsunami is "Trust me, I know what I'm doing."

  • humbled
    humbled

    Possibly not all-powerful.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    Sorry for the cut-n-paste, but, from wikipedia on criminal negligence...:

    To constitute a crime, there must be an actus reus (Latin for "guilty act") accompanied by the mens rea (see concurrence). Negligence shows the least level of culpability, intention being the most serious and recklessness of intermediate seriousness, overlapping with gross negligence. The distinction between recklessness and criminal negligence lies in the presence or absence of foresight as to the prohibited consequences. Recklessness is usually described as a 'malfeasance' where the defendant knowingly exposes another to the risk of injury. The fault lies in being willing to run the risk. But criminal negligence is a 'misfeasance or 'nonfeasance' (see omission), where the fault lies in the failure to foresee and so allow otherwise avoidable dangers to manifest. In some cases this failure can rise to the level of willful blindness where the individual intentionally avoids adverting to the reality of a situation. (In the United States, there may sometimes be a slightly different interpretation for willful blindness.) The degree of culpability is determined by applying a reasonable person standard. Criminal negligence becomes "gross" when the failure to foresee involves a "wanton disregard for human life" (see the discussion in corporate manslaughter).

    The test of any mens rea element is always based on an assessment of whether the accused had foresight of the prohibited consequences and desired to cause those consequences to occur. The three types of test are:

    1. subjective where the court attempts to establish what the accused was actually thinking at the time the actus reus was caused;
    2. objective where the court imputes mens rea elements on the basis that a reasonable person with the same general knowledge and abilities as the accused would have had those elements; or
    3. hybrid, i.e., the test is both subjective and objective.

    The most culpable mens rea elements will have both foresight and desire on a subjective basis. Negligence arises when, on a subjective test, an accused has not actually foreseen the potentially adverse consequences to the planned actions, and has gone ahead, exposing a particular individual or unknown victim to the risk of suffering injury or loss. The accused is a social danger because he or she has endangered the safety of others in circumstances where the reasonable person would have foreseen the injury and taken preventive measures. Hence, the test is hybrid.

  • humbled
    humbled

    Possibly the higher force is loving and limited. As good a guess as any.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Possibly not all-powerful.

    What is the point of an impotent god?

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