Check out flavius josephus whow rote The Jewsih Wars and was around in that generation.Describes the destruction of Jerusalem and the tmeple exactlyas Messiah prophesied. Other wirters include Tacticus, usebius. Who all confirm what happened. The writtien record by josephus describes supernatural events being witnessed in the skies
Revelation written to the 1st century churches
by maccauk11 34 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Terry
Check out flavius josephus whow rote The Jewsih Wars and was around in that generation.Describes the destruction of Jerusalem and the tmeple exactlyas Messiah prophesied. Other wirters include Tacticus, Eusebius.
I use to say the same thing myself. Then, I checked it out.
What will help you is to read those works and cut and paste what you've found.
What people have asserted to be true--is only their interpretation and not a fact.
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maccauk11
But they didoccur that is the delusion mankind is in by other men throughout history. He did as he promised and came back for those 1st century faithful one sto rule with him in The Kingodm. It rules ofr eterintyin the spirit and all mankind has to do is enter in.
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BackseatDevil
@Phizzy Yea, "there were no Atheists in the Foxholes" in WW1 .
If there was a god, there would be no WW1 in the first place. LOL.
The first three chapters were written to the 7 churches at the time. Then it gets a bit weird (I have a theory that John of Patmos was suffering from malaria and thus took a divergence in writing styles LOL). In any case, in reply to your statement, yes according to the first three chapters of the book, Revelation was written for the first century Christians. The Apocalypse of Peter (left out of the bible canon) was written for the second century Christians.
Terry makes a good point of The scriptures are pretty clear on one thing; Jesus' apostles and disciples expected events which did not occur. As the centuries went on, this expectation of events just repeated itself. All scripture is written open-ended but the individual books are literature, It is possible to 'reapply' scriptures per each generation much like one could find a poem from centuries ago poignant today or the works of William Shakespeare personally applicable in life.
What religion has done with the book of Revelation through the centuries has been astounding... even though the original text was never meant to be used as a guide outside the churches mentioned.
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maccauk11
Regardless of other writings the fact is Messiah told those standing right infront of him he would return in his KIngdom in their generation. Nowhere is there a futuristic account for beleivers 2000 years later. Talk about delusion. THe KIngodm is spiritual is here now and dwells within those who seek Messiah
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J. Hofer
it's common knowledge that john was high on mushrooms.
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maccauk11
Yes J.Hofer you know about those things eh!
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John_Mann
Atheists in foxholes
Atheists are barely visible in politics and entertainment, but they are clamoring for recognition in another area of public life — the military. The Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers estimates that 40,000 soldiers identify as nonbelievers, and counts the most famous casualty of the war in Afghanistan, former NFL star Pat Tillman, as one of its own. In attempting to secure the same rights and support enjoyed by religious soldiers, the association lobbies against the idea that "there are no atheists in foxholes," and wants "atheist chaplains" made available for the ranks of the armed nonbelievers. Jason Torpy, the association's president, says that nonbelievers outnumber every religious group in the military except Christians, yet receive no ethical and family counseling geared to their own nonbeliefs. "These are things that chaplains do for everybody," he said, "except us."
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Bart Belteshassur
maccauk11 - John Marco Allegro knows all about the use of magic mushrooms by the early christain church, in his books "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" 1970 and "The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christain Myth" 1979.
BB
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Cold Steel
OP: I’m suggesting Revelation was not for us today but to the seven churches in Minor Asia. The 1st century faithful ones were waiting for the promised return of Messiah, like he promised them. He did in fact return on the clouds to take them to heaven.
And when did he return in the clouds with “all the saints” with him? We’re also told that “every eye” would see him, including those who put him to death: “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.”
The problem with your interpretation is that you’re ignoring an entire body of prophecy that has not yet happened. For example, the apostles knew that before Jesus returned, 1) Jerusalem had to be destroyed, 2) the temple leveled, right? They also knew that 3) the Jews had to be scattered throughout the nations of the earth, and that in the future, 4) the Lord would set his hand again to recover his people (see Isaiah 11), 5) the building of the third Jewish temple (Revelation 11). And they knew there must be 6) a “restoration of all things” which all the holy prophets had written and spoken about (Acts 3).
Remember that the apostles also were prophets. They knew prophecy and all the things that had to come to pass before Jesus could return. Jesus continued to teach the apostles for 40 days after his resurrection. What did he tell them? Why isn’t any of it in the scriptures? We have traditions, but the only thing we’re told is that he taught them the mysteries of the kingdom of God. If Jesus was resurrected, then we have to acknowledge that he knew what the future would be. After the 40 days he ascended into heaven on the Mount of Olives and you’ll recall that two angels stood by and told them that Jesus would one day come “in like manner” in the clouds of heaven. The two prophets in Revelation 11 were never recorded as coming, nor the despot mentioned in Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 16. Again, this despot was the one many of the other prophets said would come (as Ezekiel notes in 38:17-18). Since the Lord did not come to the aid of Judah when the Romans sacked Jerusalem, we can only assume it would be fulfilled far in the future!
So how could all this happen in one generation?
In my mind it’s a bit presumptuous to think one knows what these scriptures were meant for. As one scholar writes:
All the 40-day teaching is described as very secret, delivered to a closed cult group. There is no desire to intrigue and mystify, however, as with the Gnostics, but rather the clearly stated policy that knowledge should be given always but only to those who ask for it, with the corollary that the higher and holier a teaching the more carefully it should be guarded. As “the last and highest revelation,” the teaching of the 40 days was top secret, and has not come down to us.
Since Irenaeus, churchmen have strenuously denied that there ever was a secret teaching or that anything really important has ever been lost. To profess otherwise would be perilously close to an admission of bankruptcy; yet Christian scholars do concede that the Apostles had information that we do not have, allow the existence of an unwritten Apostolic tradition in the church, and grant that there was a policy of secrecy in the early church—though insisting that it began with the catechetical schools. The catechists, however, appeal to a much earlier tradition of secrecy, and when the Fathers attempt to reproduce the unwritten tradition which they claim for the church they have nothing to offer but the commonplaces of the schools. Plainly things have been lost. [Source]
In other words, I believe the first century apostles knew exactly where they were in the grand scheme of things. I don’t think they expected Jesus’ return in their day or even their great grandchildren’s day.
The modern day churches especially since the 1830s are in delusion to think it is written for us today [or] some future generation. The language used is symbolic, metaphors and hyperbole and taken mostly from the Old Testament prophets like Ezekiel and Isaiah. They also used the same language which in fact was how the Jews used language to make descriptions of events.
This is an opinion, of course. One may also surmise that Ezekiel and Isaiah were written for us today. Ezekiel, after all, goes so far as to address the Beast (Gog) in Ezekiel 38: “Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?”
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Messiah told those 1st century [ones] that all things would occur in their generation and it did! Just like he said. The Apostles all confirmed the expectation of Messiah’s return in their lifetime.
Uuuuugh...yeah. When did Jesus return in the clouds? What was the coming of the sign of the Son of Man? When were the two prophets killed, and who killed them? The Beast came down upon Jerusalem to destroy it, but the Lord came to the rescue of Judah and Jerusalem and destroyed Jerusalem's enemies. How did that go down?
Sorry...it just does not compute.
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