by TJ Curioso 170 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Amen, Outlaw. Not a single thing was actually done conerning shunning.....BOTR
Good Morning Band!..
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............................... I listened to the AAWA interview..
The AAWA Rep said they didn`t expect the petition to be taken seriously..
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"Changing The Wording Of Petition" In the Middle Of Gathering Signatures..
................................Insures The Fate Of The Petition..
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...OUTLAW
Not knowing where to submit the petition is also a problem.
This plays into the hands of the WTBTS. A bunch of wild crazies interfering with freedom of religion, esp. the Witness religion. There is not a single Supreme Court justice who would allow anyone to stop the shunning. This scares no one at Bethel. It highlights how effective shunning is as a strategy for the Witnesses. Witnesses will be alarmed and support the GB even more.
I wish former Witnesses would take some time and learn what the real world is like before deciding they must be leaders. This whole drive is all ego. Me, Me, Me. I feel so old and cynical. Success is nice. The Witnesses do give you notice that they shun. I had no choice but converts do.
The GB and WT Legal lost a lot of sleep worrying over the petition. On the other hand, a lot can be said for a nifty email list and some cash.
Yeah, putting out the message that shunning is the most terrible thing and tantamount to being tortured may be an own goal - if someone was thinking of leaving and saw that then they may decide they had better stay where they are, that the WTS hold on them is as powerful as ... well, as even apostates admit it is.
I think it's better to tell the truth: shunning hurts, it's emotional manipulation - but it's not the end of the world and you can survive. You cannot base your happiness on how someone else values and treats you, if you do that then you'll be a victim all you life.
Look at how many of us have suffered shunning but lead successful, happy lives.
I appreciate that many of you are concerned about the status or effect of AAWA's Change.org petition. However, so far the facts would indicate that whatever the weaknesses of that program might be, AAWA's board is at this point quite happy with the results and expect to eventually reach our goal of 5000 signatures.
Reacting to your complaints in this thread about Change.org's misuse of email information, I have polled several of those who have signed the petition to see if they have been hit with spam. I've asked anyone with that type of experience to contact me and let me know what they've got. So far not a single complaint. Everyone's experience has been the same as mine - generally positive.
I signed the petition when it had about 500 signatures. Since then I have received just 2 emails directly from Change.org referring me to other active petitions for my consideration. In fact the second one only hit my email box this morning - and that was for a petition to restrict the importation of Chinese chicken into the United States. The reason (besides the obvious protection of our local farmers and processors) for the petition, is that inspection facilities in China are either non-existent or do not meet the standards required by the United States. Here is a sample of its contents:
"Last year, according to news reports, a Chinese poultry supplier provided Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants in China with chicken fattened by large quantities of illegal drugs. And in the U.S., the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recently warned pet owners not to feed their pets jerky treats from China. Since 2007, approximately 600 dogs and cats in the United States have mysteriously died, and 3,600 have been sickened from eating Chinese pet treats, including those containing chicken or duck.
"Yet despite these concerns, chicken can now be processed in China and sent back to this country for human consumption even though there will be no on-site USDA inspectors in Chinese processing facilities to ensure food safety. Furthermore, Chinese-processed chicken does not have to bear “Country Of Origin Labeling,” which means that consumers will not know if they are purchasing or eating chicken processed in China."
I think that kind of appeal is worth my signature - even though the USDA may do nothing at all ever. The petition, like so many before it, may fall into deaf hands. But it also acts as a warning (as AAWA's petition does) and may save a few lives. Nothing may ever be done by the USDA to save our health - there is too much money changing hands at high levels. Our only option may be to just stop eating at KFC.
So far not a a single bit of spam or any advertisements that can be connected in any way to AAWA's petition (now at 2625 signatures) has been reported.
Also, just to clear up one major misunderstanding expressed by other posters:
AAWA does not expect this petition to change the Watchtower Society in any way shape or form. All ex-JW websites, surveys, appeals, letters to headquarters, YouTube videos, court cases, bad press and the many books that have been written about JWs and the Borg have not moved them at all. Like the intransigent Pharoah of Moses' time, their hearts have just become harder and they refuse to let their people go. As we all know, the Governing Body just keeps getting more ridiculous and oppressive as time goes on. So we know that our petition will have no direct effect on the Watchtower.
Our goal is to draw some interest from secular news agencies, mass media, and goverment agencies, if not in the USA or Canada, perhaps in other countries. As mentioned before, our goal is to get 5000 signatures before formally addressing it to any govermental agencies or major news services. Feedback from third parties has already been quite encouraging and some interest has already been expressed by some unexpected, but very welcome sources.
Time will tell if anything comes of this effort - but we won't know if we don't try. Others have been very successful using Change.org.
If you do not support the petition - don't sign it.
If you think the petition is a waste of time - don't sign it.
If you are afraid that you will be bombarded with spam or directed advertising - don't sign it.
If you are not afraid - but support the goals of the petition, whether or not you support AAWA - then at least read it and consider signing it.
My purpose with this post is not to try to convert any of you to becoming AAWA supporters. I think we are pretty much outnumbered here by our critics. Some of you have some very good suggestions and critiques, but tend to get drowned out or overwhelmed by some with louder voices and more influence. My goal in writing this is just to clear up some of the misunderstanding about what our goals are and how we hope to achieve them.
We've looked at SNAP and other similar organizations that have been successful using online petitions. Many of them have had positive results using Change.org and other similar services and have recommended that we also give them a try. That's all that we are doing at the moment.
We're giving Change.org a test drive. If it gets us closer to our destination, then we may use it again. If not, we'll park it, toss the keys into the bushes and walk away. We won't know for sure unless we actually use it and see where it gets us.
Juan Viejo
I think it's better to tell the truth: shunning hurts, it's emotional manipulation -but
................it's not the end of the world and you can survive.....Simon
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............................................................................................................................. ...OUTLAW
Precisely. Read actual accounts of torture. Besides, many religions shun. Did it hurt me? Yes, and, thankfully, I faced nothing compared to most people on this forum. The truth is that marriage once was permanent. Society changed. People divorce and start new lives. You hurt. Life is full of hurt. Pain will come no matter what you do. It is the human condition. People will only leave the Witnesses if they feel they can land in a safe harbor. Soft voices are more effective than screams.
The biggest blow to the WTBTS is not playing student protest. Every time an apostate leaves and attends another church or does research into other faiths, the WTBTS is wounded. We have a constant stream of people starting or finishing education. There are myriad ways to show that you may have hurt me but living well is the best revenge. Family members and friends may observe from a distance. Something may trigger a change in their life.
I also don't think the nature of relationships in the Witnesses is the healthiest model. It is a faux intimacy based on loyalty to some very distant figures at Bethel.
I see activism here. Elegant activism. I wandered here one night without any consciousness of how my childhood experiences shaped me. Clearly, I had a hunger to communicate with other people terrorized by the orange Paradise is Lost book or someone else born-in who spent eternities of boredom in meetings. Just seeing the secret language terms that plagued my youth was funny. Rutherford, Miracle Wheat, Brother, sister.etc.
Also, just to clear up one major misunderstanding expressed by other posters:
AAWA does not expect this petition to change the Watchtower Society in any way shape or form.
Our Goal is to "Draw Some Interest" from secular news agencies, mass media, and goverment agencies, if not in the USA or Canada, perhaps in other countries.
My goal in writing this is just to clear up some of the misunderstanding about what our goals are and how we hope to achieve them.....Juan Viejo2
.....................................................There Is No Misunderstanding..
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.....................The Petition is Pointless to Everyone but "Change.org" and "AAWA"..
...................AAWA is looking for Advertising..They are "USING" the Petition to get it..
AAWA is "USING PEOPLE" who "Want to make a Difference".. Knowing Its Never Going To Happen..
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....................................AAWA Gets Advertising...........................Everyone Else Gets..
............................Change.org Makes Some Money...............................Screwed..
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................................................................................... ...OUTLAW
Apart from the poor message it gives out, the issue of people's details being accessible by a 'certain group' who have shown malice and disregard for privacy is a huge concern to me - it's not about whether anyone has or hasn't received spam in the last couple of weeks, it's what happens with their information and who can access it. But the real issue is whether it will accomplish anything. And it simply won't as the originators know and openly admit.
Laws change by legislation in response to public pressure and policy based on one thing: votes. That is the democratic process. (I know, it's really about lobbying and money - let's pretend democracy works and we're not screwed because we don't have deep pockets).
You may imagine that saying you have 5,000 people signed up is sizeable but it's really pitiful next to many other petitions on the site and pretty small compared to the number of people you need to enact change at a local city or community level. And what happens to the petitions that have hundreds of thousands of votes? Well, still nothing - because it is not the place where changes happen. It's "tick-a-box" activism which takes little affort and has no real effect.
But what it actually says is "worldwide, we only have 5,000 people interested enough ... there are no votes in this, certainly not enough concentrated in anyone's constituency for them to be bothered".
If it's now claimed that it was really to get publicity then it was poorly done - you need to prep the support base in advance so they are ready to spread the word and make things trend. Having something limp out of the start gate, crawl around the track and then collapse over the line is not going to get any attention. And of course the slight amount of publicity would not change laws, it wouldn't change the WTS behavior any. It is simply pointless IMO.
False hope, wasted time, risking people's identities.
Whether the groups board is or isn't happy about something is really immaterial. They should concentrate first on getting a clue.
If it's now claimed that it was really to get publicity then it was poorly done -.....Simon
This is what AAWA is advertising..This is Why People are Signing the AAWA Petiton
Launch an Investigation On Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Religious Policy That Violates Human Rights and Abuses Religious Freedom..
This Is What the AAWA Is Really Doing..
AAWA does not expect this petition to change the Watchtower Society in any way shape or form.
OUR GOAL is to "DRAW SOME INTEREST"
........................The AAWA Shell Game..
The AAWA Petition Isn`t about Victims of the WBT$..
...................It`s about Advertising AAWA..
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............................................................................... ...OUTLAW
So what was the outcome of this petition?
