6. What is then the hope for salvation or have you believed there is no salvation for mankind?
The biblical answer to this question will answer many of the others.
How would you answer these questions that came to me in an email through my website? ...
by AndersonsInfo 44 Replies latest jw friends
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Listener
I don't think this guy is sincere at all. Most of his points are an attack on you personally and he shows no respect for your stand against how pedophiles are handled within the congregation.
I would ask him to explain why it could not be possible that God is using you to help make the organization better.
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FlyingHighNow
4. I understand your emotional feeling as a woman regarding the molestation of teenage girls and women by members of the organization and the manner the in which the policies are applied in managing the issues, but shouldn't you have waited for Jehovah's own time? Deuteronomy 32:35
What? And allow other children/teens to be victimized and harmed?
5. I understand the hypocrisy you are trying to highlight but is leaving the organization a better choice? Remember John 6: 66-70; 1Samuel 16: 7-9
To stay would be to condone the sexual crimes against children and to share, by silence, with the molester/rapists and those covering it all up, in their crimes/sins.
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AndDontCallMeShirley
ABibleStudent: "If you answer his questions, he will not gain as much insight as if he would by doing his own research."
I couldn't agree more.
Barbara, why should you do all the heavy lifting for this guy? He should be able to provide his own explanation on all these matters instead of demanding you prove your position.
I would answer these questions only with questions. Make him prove his position. With enough study (if he's even being sincere) he will answer his own questions and see WT for what it is. If he has no interest in doing the research then why should you waste your time doing it for him?
I think this point shows you how little genuine interest he has in doing the work to find the answer to anything:
16. I did ask the question - Who were the true Christians after the death of the last Apostle? but I did not get any convincing answer. I decided to take it that Jehovah knows best and he will always find a way to get his purpose accomplished
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OnTheWayOut
4. Time and time again, the organization let down the victims and put hiding things ahead of helping people. It can be easily observed that Jehovah is not working with the Governing Body and the congregations on this matter. It leads to examining them on other matters to see the same problem.
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OnTheWayOut
9. As a man, I hate rape and child molestation, but shouldn't there be reasonable evidence to convict somebody of a crime?
Sure, I can go along with the two-witness rule before declaring someone guilty. But their methods have hurt children more than they were already hurt. If an accusation comes to the elders, why not hold the little girl or boy's hand and take them to the authorities? No need to be sure that some "uncle" or "elder" is guilty to do that. Why not put the child's interests first? Even if they are lying, they need help. Why not accept it when experts on child psychology say they are telling the truth? Still no need to violate the two-witness rule. They can approach the alledged perpetrator and tell him how the experts say he is guilty, and that it is a pretty serious allegation, so they have to warn people where the law allows them to do so.
Why not minimize any problems with the congregation contributing to such problems by restricting children to only working with their parents in field recruiting? There's no need for 16 year-old girls to pioneer and work with older men. What about telling parents that there not all "brothers" and "sisters" are Godly, and we want to watch our boys and girls?
Have I said anything unreasonable yet?
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EndofMysteries
Great job w/ the scriptures ablebodiedman
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wizzstick
Hi Barbara,
Hope these thoughts may be of use to you:
4. I understand your emotional feeling as a woman regarding the molestation of teenage girls and women by members of the organization and the manner the in which the policies are applied in managing the issues, but shouldn't you have waited for Jehovah's own time? Deuteronomy 32:35
You could here point out that the way these cases were/are being handled was precisely why you started to doubt the organisation was being used by God. Would Jesus or the apostles have allowed multiple children to be abused by an elder across different congregations?
5. I understand the hypocrisy you are trying to highlight but is leaving the organization a better choice? Remember John 6: 66-70; 1Samuel 16: 7-9
So there isn't an obvious candidate for God's Organisation. Why is that a problem? Which organisation was being used by God in th 14th century? 15th? 16th? Apostate Christendom? Islam? Buddhist?
6. What is then the hope for salvation or have you believed there is no salvation for mankind?
For me Barbara I would say I don't know, but that doesn't mean the Organisation is therefore right.
7. Is your anger directed at the leaders or you have believed there should be no religion to worship God? Remember Acts 28:21
For me I believe religion is a snare and a racket...and I've read ISOCF.
9. As a man, I hate rape and child molestation, but shouldn't there be reasonable evidence to convict somebody of a crime?
Which the police are far better to find that JW's. So all cases must be brought to the police. If you found a dead body in the KH with a knife sticking out would you call the police or ring the Branch for advice? It's a no brainer surely....
10. I understand your frustration with the two witnesses account policy but if someone denies the allegation, the organization have no means of establishing the truth without adequate evidence. In this case, shouldn't you have thought that vengeance belongs to God? Remember Romans 12: 17-19; Luke 12: 52 -59
There are other ways of applying the 2 witness rule. A successful court prosecution could be considered a seperate witness to one childs abuse, (the altar in Israel was a 'witness') thus initaiting a Judicial Commitee (at least two children need to be abused under present rules).
Plus anyone who has ever abused a child must never be allowed to serve in a position of responsibilty or be alone with a child again. Ever.
11. On the issue of higher education, I do not think the organization banned members from seeking higher education. There a lot of witnesses in Nigeria that are in the higher school of learning. Except you can provide me with evidence to the contrary. What I understood was members should be careful not to be overtly pursuing higher education when they have a qualification that can provide them a basic means of sustenance e.g. if you are a degree holder, at least it could provide you a decent living so why go further when the time spent for further education can be used for God service. As an individual, I do not think anyone can talk me out of my personal dreams. The issue in religion I see amongst people generally is the application of the doctrines. Some are bigots while others are liberal.
Just point out that the level of education needed varies from country to country varies and as the scriptures have no clear guidelines on this then this should be a conscience matter.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Sounds like he's trying to convert you back to the blinded cult mentality. I'll play along for a couple of questions...
9. As a man, I hate rape and child molestation, but shouldn't there be reasonable evidence to convict somebody of a crime?
Is the evidence of such a crime to be found at the Watchtower branch office? Local elders are specifically instructed that when they hear allegations of a child molestation, they are instructed to call the branch office FIRST. Why? Child molestation is a crime, just as murder is a crime. If allegations are made that a publisher killed another publisher, would it be reasonable for the elders to call the branch office for direction on how to handle the matter? Of course not! Congregation elders are not qualified nor have the authority to investigate a murder, evaluate the evidence, and convict someone. In the same way, congregation elders are not qualified nor do they have the authority to perform a physical examination, evaluate evidence, and convict a molester. Neither does the branch office have such qualifications or authority to perform the investigation into such a hideous crime. The scriptures clearly state that such criminal matters should be turned over to the "superior authorities" of the government.
1 Pet 2:13 For the Lord’s sake subject yourselves to every human creation, whether to a king as being superior 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish wrongdoers but to praise those who do good.
Sadly, many congregation elders have followed the direction of branches and have protected child molesters rather than children. Is it any wonder that now the governmental authorities are punishing such wrong conduct?
10. I understand your frustration with the two witnesses account policy but if someone denies the allegation, the organization have no means of establishing the truth without adequate evidence. In this case, shouldn't you have thought that vengeance belongs to God? Remember Romans 12: 17-19; Luke 12: 52 -59
The bible doesn't specifically instruct Christians on every detail of criminal investigation in the case of child molestation. Similarly, the bible doesn't specifically instruct Christians on the handling of drunk drivers who strike and kill pedestrians. Does that mean that if a brother has been in the habit of drinking heavily and hitting pedestrians, that nothing can be done because no two witnesses survived to speak? If the driver denies the allegation, does that mean there is no other evidence to consider? If the police show up and begin inspecting the dents and blood on the driver's car, should forensic evidence be ignored, or even washed away by the local elders in order to protect the brother from prosecution? Are the scriptures in Romans and Luke telling Christians that they should look the other way when a drunk driver is in the habit of killing people? No indeed! Both verses are talking about petty disputes between individuals not gross violations of federal laws.
Child molestation is a crime. And when even Satan's world looks at something like this as a horrible crime that needs to be addressed before other children are hurt, shouldn't any organization claiming to represent the true God set an even higher standard for protecting children? Rather, if one turns a blind eye to such criminal offenses, Ezekial's words of adverse judgment apply:
Ezekial 34:4 You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bandaged the injured or brought back the strays or looked for the lost; rather, you have ruled them with harshness and tyranny.
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mind blown
Question #4:
(A). James 4:17 ...."So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
- It is not acceptable to wait while children are being harmed.
(B) Matthew chapter 17: "If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
- No one is above being exposed of wrong doing.
(C ) Ezekiel 33:8 ..."If I say to the wicked, O wicked one, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn from his way, that wicked person shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.
- Doesn't sound like wait on Jehovah to me.
(D) Romans 13:1-7...... Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
(F) Matthew 18:6.......But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
- Doesn't sound like it says wait, and let the little ones be harmed. Does it?