Jesus' Teachings - Helpful or Harmful?

by jgnat 153 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Band on the Run

  It depends whose gospel you decide to accept. Mark is very apocalyptic and spooky. There appear to be different traditions of Jesus. We tend to fous on the Sermon on the Mount and social gospel scriptures.

  I love The Last Temptation of Christ. The book is better than the film. Martin Scorcese had me laughing when Jesus pulls out his heart in the film. I don't take the gospel stories literally. Several Jesus' are present. He is contadictory. As a believer, how do you select which Jesus to accept? The apocalyptic stuff scared me much as a child. Other faith traditions may not be as spooky as the Witnesses. Think Branch Davidians.

  Jesus has motivated people to do great charitable acts. Elaine Pagels explained how the Emperor of Rome committed some heinous act. I believe there was a mass slaughter at a coliseum. The death toll was high. The pope, as Bishop of Rome, ordered the Emperor to do penance. When the Emperor acknowledged the power of the church and did public penance, a change was discernible. The Roman Church shows great acts and great atrocities. I don't believe it is Jesus that brings out good or bad but the individuals involved.

  Jesus has been a force for good in my life. I feel called to ministries. Many hours have been devoted to Homeless and AIDS Ministry, not to mention support of the arts. I feel a true sense of a caring community in most churches. People are called to action over social issues. The civil rights movement was almost completely the work of the black church.

  On the other hand, I've seen Triumph of the Will several times. The messianic images mixed with HItler's arrival and the use of sound to build psychological pressure and then release are so obvious that they are scary. The Inquisition makes one wonder. Use of the church as a way to block science and the arts is legendary. Constantine's Sword is a classic dealing with rampant antiSemitism in Europe. Jesus stands in the middle.

  I live with the tension. It will make me unpopular but I wish it were not necessary to live with tension. The same process must happen in every religion on earth. My childhood and teen years would have been much nicer in a different denomination. I was robbed of a childhood. Young people should not have to deal with emotional stress in the form of an angry and immoral God. I have no answers. When I speak to most people, they have tons of questions, too. Tension is all right.
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  jgnat

  BOTR, your talk of tension brings to mind this image:

  

  String under tension brings forth beautiful music.
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  humbled

  This thread has been on my head all day, Jgnat. I enjoy the posts and these press me to reflect on the teachings of Jesus and their "fit" with humanity.

  And speaking of posts, I was out of town when you opened the thread that has its link above. Interesting to see your line of inquiry.

  I never dismiss cofty's indictments of Jesus. But in view of the frank tampering and political management of the gospels, it seems too obvious that the early church"fathers" wrote the stories of Jesus to build a highway to control and power. I just do not see Jesus forcing a troop of followers into the binds you describe, cofty. He was too reasonable everywhere else.

  It was frightening when I realized that the Jesus I had taken into my life was not the same Jesus that the churches taught.

  These last few days of forum discussion have made me face that.

  Remembering that I read the gospel of thomas 35 years ago( you know the gnostic gospels were considered heresies), remembering how beautifully they matched the teachings that were "love"-ly in the canonical NT, I found and re-read them at work. I am even now more struck by their freedom: no judgement, no Armeggiddon, freedom from rules and hierarchy--no resurrection and afterlife, no virgin birth. And women were welcome.

  I really wonder, without the theological/doctrinal bits to show Jesus as the son of God--would anyone listen to him? If he were simply a good wise teacher?
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  humbled

  Tec, thanks for your kind words.

  It is surely a difficult position to find myself in--no longer bound by religious doctrine yet guided by the words of a man, though not a charlatan, who may never have made the claims that have been attributed to him.

  Yet his example and teachings have and continue to shape my life. I love the Jesus I met.

  I am possibly searching through an area of faith that will seem hostile to most views of Jesus. Considering the good he has done for me, some might see me as a traitor.

  At any rate, I wish you well as you listen to Him. I, too, have my way of listening.

  Maeve
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  cofty

  He was too reasonable everywhere else.

  This is called confirmation bias.
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  cofty

  Why would these not be authentic words of Jesus.....?

  He has just told a rich young man to give his possessions to the poor and reassured his followers they will be rewarded in the kingdom.

  It is in this context that we learn that his disciples abandoned their families.

  Is the nice Jesus of your imagination the criteria for judging the authenticity of the gospels?
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  jgnat

  Let's flip it, cofty. Is it advantageous to take the best of what we imagine the man to be (perfect in love, perfect in truth), no matter what the reality was? Basically, living with an ideal.
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  cofty

  Yes I can see that. It reduces the gospels to a sanctified Aesop's Fable. As long as believers can be honest about this I can see the value.

  Bishop John Shelby Spong epitomises almost rational christianity for me.
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  LV101

  jgnat - For openers I like this topic. I'm not sure of anything but have heard the theologian heavies on radio say Jesus' promise to his diciples was fulfilled with the arrival of the holy spirit/holy ghost as he promised it would be better than his presence (something like that). Had another comment that we've all heard - oh well.

  Jesus' words of loving one's neighbor (or whoever originally spoke the words) is a huge one when people act like animals (convinces me of evolution) to the immediate stimuli of their environment.

  I appreciate positive comments of individuals here re/their churches' charitable works in their respective communities. That is so good to hear after JW ways and doing nothingism to help the disadvantaged. I'm apprehensive to attend/join and involved in other service/charitable orgs but assume the involvement w/religious orgs is no more political than these - perhaps less.
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  LV101

  The leaving family behind and hating others to follow Jesus wasn't literal but since it was natural to love one's parents, others, etc., and this was not to stop but used to emphasize and make the point how critical it was to follow his deeds/words and witness to others - after all, everyone is your neighbor to love. Now, I'm only relaying this.