snare&racket
Who Made The Code?
by Perry 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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never a jw
Quite interesting that it is scientists who give us always a better understanding of life and all its related processes. Yet the very scientists who discover new things to reaffirm their strong convictions about an evolutionary process, are denigrated by nincompoops who make zero contributions to the advancement of knowledge but are prompt to claim arrogantly to know better, and use as evidence a paragraph written on an ancient book, quite representative of the mythology of its time, and consequently of very questionable authorship. The irony always amazes me... and frustrates me...and scares me.
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abiather
Here is an interesting view by a scientist (Peter Lynds)
"Why there is something rather than nothing"
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prologos
It is very tempting for hardworking, ingenious scientists to take total credit for their discoveries, inventions. The battles for priority, recognition are legendary.
It is disconcerting then to have a nobody claim "see, that is how (fill in the favoured deity) did it!!!.
To prevent, or soften the impact of that, plant the "flag of Atheism" on that newly discovered intellectual property. i.e proclaim your self an atheist, make the right noises of the atheist tribe and the credit is all yours. fine, but
It IS the ground, rock, Moon dust even, that was there before we came.
"I thought of that first." really?
for your enjoyment read the current "New Scientist" news.
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QuestioningEverything
You can't say that DNA or any other part of humans are to complex to have just appeared or evolved and then turn around and suggest that GOD just appeared. One is no more ridiculous an explanation than the other one. Can both sides admit that much? One thing we absolutely know is that things do evolve or adapt. Some argue that people aren't still evolving but we are. We are bigger stronger faster and live longer than our ancesters were.
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prologos
QE yeah, in 1936, while Jesse Owens showed them, Lise Meitner was at it splitting the first atom (in the same local), now
the Jamaicans push it and CERN recreates Higgs in a mini big bang.
progress is provided for. but will it stick?
BTW: on a more serious note: the CODE is actually breaking down. Did you say we are living longer than our ancestors ?? according to creationists : NOT SO !
our most recent common ancestor is Noah, and
he lived 950 years.
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Perry
Snare and Racket,
Were you aware that your mind-limiting materialist views are a minority among scientists? About two-thirds of scientists believe in God, according to a new survey by sociologists from Rice University.
Great Scientists who believed in God are manifold: Here's a partial list of some Noble Laureates just in the past hundred years:
PART I. Nobel Scientists (20-21 Century) Albert Einstein Nobel Laureate in Physics Jewish Max Planck Nobel Laureate in Physics Protestant Erwin Schrodinger Nobel Laureate in Physics Catholic Werner Heisenberg Nobel Laureate in Physics Lutheran Robert Millikan Nobel Laureate in Physics probably Congregationalist Charles Hard Townes Nobel Laureate in Physics United Church of Christ (raised Baptist) Arthur Schawlow Nobel Laureate in Physics Methodist William D. Phillips Nobel Laureate in Physics Methodist William H. Bragg Nobel Laureate in Physics Anglican Guglielmo Marconi Nobel Laureate in Physics Catholic and Anglican Arthur Compton Nobel Laureate in Physics Presbyterian Arno Penzias Nobel Laureate in Physics Jewish Nevill Mott Nobel Laureate in Physics Anglican Isidor Isaac Rabi Nobel Laureate in Physics Jewish Abdus Salam Nobel Laureate in Physics Muslim Antony Hewish Nobel Laureate in Physics Christian (denomination?) Joseph H. Taylor, Jr. Nobel Laureate in Physics Quaker Alexis Carrel Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Catholic John Eccles Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Catholic Joseph Murray Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Catholic Ernst Chain Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Jewish George Wald Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Jewish Ronald Ross Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology Christian (denomination?) Derek Barton Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Christian (denomination?) Christian Anfinsen Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Jewish Walter Kohn Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Jewish Richard Smalley Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Christian (denomination?) PART II. Nobel Writers (20-21 Century) T.S. Eliot Nobel Laureate in Literature Anglo-Catholic (Anglican) Rudyard Kipling Nobel Laureate in Literature Anglican Alexander Solzhenitsyn Nobel Laureate in Literature Russian Orthodox François Mauriac Nobel Laureate in Literature Catholic Hermann Hesse Nobel Laureate in Literature Christian; Buddhist? Winston Churchill Nobel Laureate in Literature Anglican Jean-Paul Sartre Nobel Laureate in Literature Lutheran; Freudian; Marxist; atheist; Messianic Jew Sigrid Undset Nobel Laureate in Literature Catholic (previously Lutheran) Rabindranath Tagore Nobel Laureate in Literature Hindu Rudolf Eucken Nobel Laureate in Literature Christian (denomination?) Isaac Singer Nobel Laureate in Literature Jewish This is not to mention some of the greatest minds ever seen in previous centuries like Newton, Kepler, Bacon, Galelio etc. ; who were Christians.
Remember what Professor Lewontin has stated about Materialism.... statements which you do not deny but seem to welcome.
"It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes" ... materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.
Surely to any lover of freedom, phrases like "Forced" and "materialism is an absolute" are enemies to free-minds and free thought . The notion that keeps being repeated among comitted materialists is that only they are responsible for science; this is proved false by FACTS. The opposite is true, an assumption of a superior intellect drives many scientists to look for patterns, logic, and systems inherent in creation, which they indeed find.
You are certainly welcome to your own views, but they are in the MINORITY among the educated, as well as compared to the world's population in general.
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THE GLADIATOR
Perry, if the number of people that believe in something is your priority, it is only a matter of time before you convert to being a Muslim. You would then have to cut and paste in either Arabic, Turkish, Urdu, Farsi, Pashtu, Dari, Bengali, Bosnian. Problem is, there are few Muslim scientists.
Listening to Snare & a racket makes more sense.
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snare&racket
The fact you don't understand the difference between EVIDENCE produced by the scientific process and personal belief, highlights the futility of talking to you. You called me a materialist, I value the evidence and evidence alone.....telling me people believe in god is nothing but as anecdotal aside to me. They can do science all day and go home and make love to Donkey's, the data they collate in the day still stands, and I for one will say no to El'Burro!
As for the statistics you have provided, this happens to be an area I researched for a paper.
This was the biggest and best study I could find when I did my research 2 years ago.
"According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. By contrast, 95% of Americans believe in some form of deity or higher power"
http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/
As for the survey you quoted from 2005, the writer Elaine Ecklund wrote "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really Think" in 2010 breaking up how she came to the conclusion of "two thirds" of scientists believing in god. Take a peak and see what she did....
34% were atheist (12% of which also call themselves spiritual)
30% were agnostic
27% had some belief in God (9% have doubts but affirm their belief, 5% have occasional belief, 8% believe in a higher power that is not a personal God)
9% of scientists said they had no doubt of God's existence.
Recognising the statistical slight of hand she played, she did admit beliving scientists are "a considerably smaller proportion than the approximately 90% in the general American population"
Despite this it means jack shit to me. Pythagoras was still right, despite him and his buddies bowing to Zeus. The fact that only 9% of scientists have no doubt of gods existence it means nothing to me. The evidence they work on day in and out does.
Also, you do realise you can no longer question the motives of science as you believe 2/3rds are believers. Kind of puts you in a difficult position as you have called them liars for 6 pages.....
Snare x