Who Made The Code?

by Perry 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  bohm

  Prologos: With no Movement through Time,-- there can be no Cause that preceded the present, the last, the Creation event ACTOR.

  I have said it to you many times:

  We do not know that

  I feel it is a very simple statement but for some reason it is very hard to communicate. There are things in the world we do know, and there are things we do not know. This one fit in the later category.

  We do not know there was no time or no "before" the big bang

  If you disagree PLEASE take the time on google to do your own research and you will only find out there are no theory we know of that does not break down as we approach the big bang "event" (if it make sense to talk of such a thing).

  So once again:

  We do not know there was no movement through time "before" the big bang (we do not know if this statement is even meaningfull).

  Can we begin to agree on this point?
• 

  prologos

  bohm, yes we can agree that we do not know about movement through time or not before theunivers'es beginning, we know of course that we live in spacetime since the startup at the 'big bang'.

  Penrose bases his work on the assumption that there was time before the big bang, and some thoughts on the dark energy are , that it is actual part of the big void the universe is expanding into, and the space that the universe aquires through it's expansion, adds to the total energy content of our world. so

  if there is energy out there, time would be a factor in that, and obviously the universe is not only expanding in space but also into time.

  what I working with is, that thinking backward to the energy squeeze of the big bang singularity, we have cause preceding effect, hence flow through time.

  We can not extrapolate beyond that, therefore the argument of the chain of creators all the way up, rather than all the way down of the turtles, is invalid.

  Right or wrong, I work with the assumption that the Cosmos always had time UR-TIME, always had ENERGY (that now shows up as the aquired dark energy of expanded space), and we are privileged to have a short ride on the trip that started in the big bang, that if nothing else was a big energy concentration in a versy small space.

  All instructions, even for the 'THE CODE', the laws, came through that confined beginning. it was not a black hole, it was a white hole. Penrose has the details how this can happen.
• 

  bohm

  Prologos: right. as i understand you now you agree we do not know if there was a "before" the big bang phase or not.
• 

  DaveS

  Snare&Racket
  
  Hi,
  
  you don't know me, I very rarely log in to this account and I don't really post on this website, but after reading through this topic I felt obliged to give you some advice.
  
  Give up.
  
  The people you are arguing with here are a waste of your time. You are obviously an educated fellow who may yet contribute something of importance to human history, concentrate on that. These dullards are not going to be swayed from their ignorant little bubbles. I have only recently taken up further education and have very limited knowledge of science and yet I have been able to follow your succinct posts quite well, these people are wilfully ignorant, they have made up their minds already. Forget about them and concentrate on your studies!
  
  I wish you all the best,
  
  Dave
• 

  prologos

  Snare & Racket, I understand how you as an highly educated fellow feels ina discussion like this, and respect your better perspective. I did not adress you when I cited Hawkins. I was talking in general about the quality of the images, the evolving eye for example in his books, which I read, also the works of Krauss. In such works the implication is always, there really was no such thing as NOTHING befor the start of everything.' and whatever happened in that nothing, virtual energy fluctuations (I am paraphrasing) clearly took time, even to the second power. Roger Penrose also is building his works on time, information existing before our very own beginning. The discovery that dark energy is a property of the cosmos, raises the possibility that it exists outside the defined spacetime, and before the big bang.

  It should not be below your dignity to discuss these things with lesser lights, because your sharper and sharper arguments will help those readers that need all the help they can get to become seriously interested.

  BSW I spend time last week in Emergency and am greatfull to the achievements of the medical professionals, even those in my family.

  what I read between the lines, and in conclusion, in the books of the genre is: "here is how it works, are we not clever to have figured that out, so we dont need a creator. we explained it. It never explains the elephant in the room (Creation, existence) not even the room.

  enjoy your posts, your position.
• 

  prologos

  bohm, true, we do not KNOW with certainty IF and what led up to the BIG BANG PHASE. But that said,

  there there are serious workers in that field that have put forward ideas, theories even that require pre-existing conditions, events to bring about the start up of the BIG BANG PHASE. among them Prof Roger Penrose, Krauss mentioned by Snare&Racket.

  keep your eyes on the horizon, new stuff emerging all the time.

  DaveS, it would be appreciated if you had something to say about the ISSUE at hand. the Code, the Process, the background of the emergence of energy, matter, nature's regularity (laws),

  rather than analizing wether poster's and reader's ignorance, perceived or real is WILLFUL.
• 

  abiather

  Perry,

  Very fine posting. Thank you for that.

  Yet not surprising that many disagree with you!

  " A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." (philosopher - poet Paul Frederic Simon)
• 

  nicolaou

  There's none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE.
• 

  abiather

  nicolaou

  What a realistice OBSERVATION! Thank you for that.

  This reminds me of what happened in our place. A rich man had a daughter who was very ugly-looking, hence was finding it difficult to get her married. In desperation, he had her married to a blind man. And they were leading a happy married life. Years passed. One day, rich man had a visitor who was his childhood friend. When he saw the rich man’s son-in-law, he suggested that there is a capable doctor in his city who can cure this type of blindness. Rich man became sad within, and began to resist the idea. If you were his friend, you would assert your point with more and more force and will end up in troubled relationship with the rich man. For you do not know that the reason behind his refusal is his convenience—he is afraid of the possibility that once cured of his blindness, his son-in-law may abandon his wife!

  It also reminds me of this chinese proverb:

  "One fish asked the other, Do you believe in this ocean that they talk about?"

  Many do not realize our limitation! We see the world from our limited perceptual framework. Despite an overwhelming evolution of the human race, the human mind is severely restricted by what it can perceive through the senses. What we hear is limited by the frequencies our ears can process. Dogs can hear many higher frequencies and hence have a very different perception of the same sounds. Our sight is limited by the light frequencies our eyes can relate to; since pit vipers can sense heat from infrared rays they must construct the same world rather differently. If we had a different receiver mechanism, we would be hearing other frequencies and seeing in new ways.
• 

  cofty

  The Brahma Kumaris cult aplogist is back.