snare&racket, just wanted to say that I appreciate your comments and insight. I've begun to wonder whether there is any real value in debating unreasonable creationists like Perry. I used to think that lurkers might benefit from the discussion - and maybe they do. Alternatively, his dogmatic refusal to engage with real science and rational enquiry may be hindering others from joining what could be a grown up, enjoyable and PRODUCTIVE debate. He's been trotting out the same, tired, clichéd arguments for the whole thirteen years of my time here and he hasn't progressed one iota. I'm done with him. My time is more valuable, I'd rather engage with minds more flexible even if we don't agree. Apologies for formatting (mobile phone)
Who Made The Code?
by Perry 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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snare&racket
I have no intention to insult or scare you, i am turning your mocking against you and highlighting your insignificance in the light of people who actually matter. If Craig Ventnor was to stop working, it would matter to our society. Me and you, not so much.
You have never been so honest, if not between the lines... some people see this data and see emlightnement, some see it and it tells them they NEED a god!
I have no idea how any of this data communicates a need for a god, why one god and not gods? Doubtless you have ONE specific god in mind, by chance the god of our historical times and prevelant in your geography.... Hmmm conveniant.
You are never going to budge, I was once identical to you , but with one difference.... I KNEW NOTHING of this information, these facts, the data. What is the relevance? I have been your side of the fence, I worshiped and loved a 'god' charachter, I knew the bible inside out, I got excited researching the bible, I gave my yourh to pioneering,mthen bethel.... BUT STILL, I have no idea how you intepret this scientific information into NEEDing a god. It isnt logical, sensible, evidential, or even religiously consistant.
but each to their own..... I appreciate some NEED it, some don't.
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snare&racket
Cheers nic,
I guess its partly, hoping that these guys decide to pick up a book and see the evidence for themselves, partly that someone clicking by such threads see an alternate story than the JW version of events, with signposts to where to find the evidence.
I know these guys are lazy and dishonest, asking the same questions over and over, ignoring answers over and over again. But for 25 years I did the same thing.
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designs
I'm pulling for Odin and Thor....
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Witness My Fury
Snare thanks for the input, i always enjoy your posts. if you dont have time to waste here then don't, literally NOTHING will change their minds, ...after all who can forget the total idiocy of the "hand of God" thread:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/270463/1/NASA-Identifies-The-Hand-of-God
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designs
WMF- You know of course that wasn't any old hand it was ODIN's Hand....
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prologos
The odin, thor comments belong in the humour section. Your links and books by Dawkins and others have impressive pictures of the reality out there.
You no doubt claim "fair usage" on the copyright issue.
These pretty pictures were proudly created.
what can YOU say that is CONVINCING to prove that this majestic universe (that you picture in part) was not made, created it self, out of self-generated energy?
because all you have to offer is pretty pictures and daft descriptions of what another really caused to be MADE.
your pictures & pronouncements take credit for another's greater work.
You have the pictures, we have the WORKS
May be you can have the word CREATION removed from the vocabulary, dictionaries.
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Witness My Fury
If it requires (in your definition) an intelligent creator to make the stuff we see, then who made the creator? Who made that creator of the creator? Who made the creator of the creators?
You get the drift? Follow your own logic back. You have no real answer.
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prologos
Witness my fury, one eye wide open, like in aiming to take a shot.
here is my shot at your question:
Looking back in time (we do it all the time), we see THINGS that are caused . From CAUSE to Effect, its a sequence all the way.
Sequence= a movement THROUGH time. but
According all Authorities (except Sir Roger Penrose)
there was no MOVEMENT THROUGH time before the beginning Big Bang i.e. the emergence of energy, matter (via the Higgs Boson, gravity,-- the works.
With no Movement through Time,-- there can be no Cause that preceded the present, the last, the Creation event ACTOR.
It is neither turtels nor creators all the way down.
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snare&racket
If you are talking about me prologos,
Not one of my pictures is from Dawkins, they are all from papers using google scholar.
You do realise I have studied biology (medicine) for 7 years and have never read Dawkins as part of my degree, this knowledge has nothing to do with Dawkins. This is stuff I do for my job, this isnt from a Dawkins book.
In fact I have said several imes over, the textbook "Biology" by Campell and Reece is what I used in my pre-university days (before I heard of Dawkins and was still a believer in god).
You really are a confused soul if you think this is all Dawkins, an animal behviour expert. I haven't discussed his speciality once.
As for "W hat can YOU say that is CONVINCING to prove that this majestic universe (that you picture in part) was not made, created it self, out of self-generated energy?"
The fact you think you can demand an answer and not accept "we dont know" speaks of your decided mind, approach to the issue. But ignoring that ...there are LOTS of theories that people are working on right now. That is the work being done at CERN. I am a medic, you are asking me to convince you how the universe began in a forum.
You are a fool! Go and by some books discussing the topic.
The LATEST book is "A universe from nothing" by prof Krauss who provides a quantum mechanic expliantion on the formation of the universe from three definitions of 'nothing'.
Been as you don't appreciate science or theoretical physics, the chances of you bothering to read it is about 0%. You just want to own the question, you dont WANT the answers.
WE DO !