Heart vs Mind - What Makes Us Human

by ballistic 44 Replies latest jw friends

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  ballistic

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01kpvj1/Heart_vs_Mind_What_Makes_Us_Human/

  I was watching this BBC iplayer programme on heart and mind, (which is well worth a watch if you can access where you are)

  and despite how the programme starts out, it develops into a deep and touching discussion of what makes us human.

  I personally was left with the feeling at odds with what I believed as a witness. I was left feeling that we are essentially feeling creatures with thought and a brain bolted on.

  And it led me further to think that religion is really an attempt at this point in human and human sociological evolution to force the thinking mind to control emotion, and this is the point we are at.

  And that many of mankinds social problems and wars are really because this is where we are on that path.
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  Phizzy

  "And that many of mankinds social problems and wars are really because this is where we are on that path."

  I agree, religion really is an anachronism in the 21st Century, and so are ignorant racist attitudes, plus, as you say religion and outdated ideas add to social problems.

  We really need for all Humans to get up to speed, and Education is the key, but there are so many groups that risist the Truth (LOL), huge groups like Islam and Christendom, and small pockets of loony fringe groups.

  "What makes us Human" is a fascinating subject. One which will continue to spark debate I hope.
• 

  ballistic

  Although religious implications aren't discussed in the programme, it really is an interesting point. Relgion has it that we are made in God's image, intelligent by design, and we only fail at controlling our lives completely, or at least our bodily urges because we fell into sin from perfection. But in evolution we find that as animals with feelings and emotions, our brains became more intelligent or should I say, parts of our brain added thought and intellectual abilities and reasoning to our impulsive minds. And you could hypothesise on this; that instead of our brain failing us in so many ways, addictions, habits, etc, that the brain really is at the mercy of the body in many ways, and always has been.
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  galaxie

  Do you mean , that primitive creatures developed with feeling without a sensory organ ?. Although we speak of the heart as the 'seat of emotions' our emotions are entirely controlled by our sensory organ the brain. So what makes us human? ? Being that language vocabulary etc is relatively modern in terms of the time scale of our existence, we were well developed before any human like creature could even consider the question.

  Therefore as we became more and more 'human' which involved more intricate reasoning the only way would be through the development of the brain.

  Human therefore equals...Developed brain power which encompasses the emotions (heart) if you like. My humble opinion of course .
• 

  ballistic

  "Do you mean , that primitive creatures developed with feeling without a sensory organ ?."

  No - not that. I'm not speaking of the brain as one functional unit, but made up of many parts (which indeed it actually is). After watching the programme, I am left thinking that at one level in the brain there is just the emotion, and that a sub system of the brain provides the rational thinking, together with the language and reasoning that all goes together. We tent to think in terms of the rational brain should control the emotional, and yet I think who we really are is tied up in the side with all the feeling.
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  Phizzy

  The latest research backs up what you said in the last sentence.

  We make our decision before our brain has processed it in to a rational thought as to why we made the decision. probably quite a valuable skill if you were about to be eaten by a Sabre-toothed Tiger in P.H times !
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  galaxie

  Hey phizzy, If you think we can make a decision before the brain processes it what is the process of deciding?.The sensory triggers sight, smell , touch even what we call instinct, ie reacting to an inbuilt feeling must be channelled through our sensory organ the brain. Our nervous system is directed immediately to the brain. Any other solution would be new to science!.
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  jgnat

  galaxie, phizzy knows what he speaks about. I'm reading about that very thing, the research and study by Haidt.

  http://righteousmind.com/

  The process of deciding is a cognitive act by the brain, it's just not articulate or "conscious". Articulation is handled by our rational part. We know this because people who have brain damage to their cognitive centers but have their rational processes intact, can't make a decision. There are endless pro's and cons for every rational decision we make.

  And yet, there's nearly universal (human) aversion to snakes and spoilage, for instance. We have a DANGER and a yuk instinct built in, and we can't wait for the rational brain to decide it's not good for us.
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  galaxie

  Phizzy .."We make our decision before our brain processes it".

  Jgnat...The process of deciding is cognitive act by the brain.

  Now which one is it?

  JGNAT it looks kike you and I concur .any feeling we have is immediately processed by the cognitive function of our brain.

  I stand to be corrected of course by science.

  No one was talking about brain damage thats quite a different matter.
• 

  jgnat

  We make our decision before our brain has processed it in to a rational thought - phizzy

  Correct

  The process of deciding is a cognitive act by the brain, it's just not articulate or "conscious" - jgnat

  Correct

  It's not logical cognition. It's what we call intuition, or "gut feeling". Brain damage in specific sectors of the brain give us insight in to their function. A completely logical mind with damage in the intuitive sections, can't decide. Haidt makes a compelling argument that our inarticulate portion of the mind makes a decision before our rational mind ever gets a shot at the problem. Our rational mind is chiefly used to justify our decisions. It's used to raise our status in groups.