Theism Makes Science Impossible

by cofty 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  aquafrenta

  Cofty, I read more than the first line of your OP. Only a small portion of scientific inquiry involves matters of physical health. Your hypothetical is very narrow and extrapolating problems in medical research to "science and theism are incompatible " is not valid.

  If A then B does not equal If B then A.

  Medical science has a much more difficult time factoring placebo effect than Gods intervention. Astronomers, chemists, geologists, palientologists and anthropologists do not have to consider a medling God, nor become hypocrits in doing there work. Biologists on the other hand Do need to consider external effects. Call it God or the will to survive.
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  cofty

  so annoying, since the real goal of a debate should be to uncover truths thru challenging thoughts, and not be a free-for-all bar brawl - king Solomon/Adam

  Says the poster with one of the worst records of personal attacks.
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  cofty

  Aquafrenta - You seem to be tying god's hands and saying he can heal the sick but not dabble in other areas of the natural world.

  Medical science has a much more difficult time factoring placebo effect than Gods intervention

  Which is the purpose of the double-blind trial. But the theist doctor believes there is also a god-factor which he can't possibly measure.
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  humbled

  Galaxie addresses Seraph to say that "belief through faith is no more than guess work... Would it not be more productive/intelligent to have something concrete to base it on?" And further "Science should be congratulated for at least trying to give an answer no matter how long it takes."

  I am not in dispute over those remarks.

  But I look at that iconic picture of the woman and dead child from the tsunami, the one cofty posted to steady-up the "epic" thread. And again and again I HAVE understood why Christian theism doesn't answer this picture --but again and again I understand why many DON'T need concrete proof of god even where life is so harsh--don't need it among the very people for whom, if there were a god, he would have so much to answer FOR.

  It is simply beyond the power of many of us to NOT pray. Even to NOTHING. (I understand you, Kate!).Even in anger.It is beyond habit. Life is so huge and horrible and what befalls us can be so beautiful and baffling.

  There is a soldiers' saying "There are no atheists in the foxhole".

  Why ain't he a' waiting for answers?

  Maybe he is. Many prayers, mine, just say"I'm scared"or "this moment is wonderful"or'thanks"

  Waiting for answers is what we all do--have to do. That woman and child. If she find any comfort in a god I would neither tell her this nor that. Because both in the beauty of life and in its terror and aloneness-- in our not-knowing--some of us pray.
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  cofty

  Humbled I respect that honest position.

  Living with unanswered questions is human. What we ought to avoid is pretending to know things we can't know.

  If our belief is commensurate with the evidence and beyond that we can say, "I don't know" we are being reasonable.

  If we find comfort in prayer and recognise that it for what it is, who could object?

  "There are no atheists in the foxhole" - I know that is not true.
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  aquafrenta

  Cofty,

  Feeling compelled to tell you one of my favorite jokes.

  What do you get when you cross an agnostic with a dyslexic?

  Someone who lays awake at night wondering if there is a Dog.
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  aquafrenta

  What do you get when you cross an athiest with a JW?

  Someone who knocks on your door for no reason.
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  humbled

  Lol. Too true, cofty. Atheism flourishes in the trenches. Not everything a soldier says is true. But this is:

  I knew a simple soldier boy Who grinned at life in empty joy. Slept soundly through the lonesome dark, And whistled early with the lark. In winter trenches, cowed and glum, With crumps and lice and lack of rum. He put a bullet through his brain. No one spoke of him again.

  You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye Who cheer when soldier lads go by, Sneak home and pray you'll never know The hell where youth and laughter go.

  Suicide in the Trenches (1917) Sigfried Sassoon
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  yadda yadda 2

  That is like saying a bachelor might be married.

  A theist who doesn't beleive god is active in the world is a deist.

  You've misinterpreted me. I could have worded it better, but my point was that no Theist believes God answers every prayer. Yes, theists believe God is active in the world, but they do not believe God answers every prayer. Every Theist knows this, as would your hypothetical scientist.

  But carry on with your strawman argument.
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  cofty

  theists believe God is active in the world, but they do not believe God answers every prayer - Yadda

  Actually theists do believe god answers every prayer. The answers all sit on the "no - not yet - yes" spectrum.

  If god answers even some prayers for healing, epidemiological studies are all flawed.

  The theist doctor must pretend that god answers no prayers in presenting his study. Not even a footnote.