Hi, dear Frank... and again, peace to you!
Okay, let's take a look, shall we? You said:
Put Thomas a side for this brief moment,okay?
Okay.
Well try anyway.
No 'try'; done.
In Luke 24:39,Christ said Himself that He was not a spirit.
He was recorded to have said, yes. He was in the flesh. Um, I think I said that.
At the moment of death He said,Luke 23:46,"Father,into your hands I commit My spirit."
Yes, he is recorded to have said that, as well.
So Christ's spirit went to the Father.
No, his spirit did NOT 'go' to the Father, but was 'committed'... or ENTRUSTED to the Father. Where did his spirit 'go'? To Sheol, the world of the dead.
1 Peter 3:18, 19
And... because such spirit was entrusted to Him, my Father did not LEAVE it in Sheol and did not let it 'see the pit' (the lowest parts of the the abyss where SPIRIT beings who sin are 'bound'). You see, since my Lord was INITIALLY a spirit being, HIS spirit COULD have been sent there and 'bound'), but instead, my Father gave him the KEYS so that he could raise himself, his spirit, UP... and bring it BACK from the dead!
Psalm 16:1-11 (This is my Lord speaking through David, who was inspired or 'in spirit')
Some of the greatest scholars in the world do not quite understand the relationship between Christ,His Spirit....as the Bible says,God is a mystery.
True, to those who do not 'know' God or 'know' the Christ... and, thus, are not 'known' BY them. But to those who 'belong' to the Christ, did he not say "I do not call you slaves, but call you friends because everything I have received from the Father I have said to you?" If one KNOWS Christ... not knows OF him or ABOUT him... but KNOWS HIM, THE TRUTH (John 14:6), such one is SET FREE. By means of him, such one RECEIVES HOLY SPIRIT, that is, God and Christ come and dwell IN that one, so that such SPIRIT... teaches such one ALL things. Yes? So, God is NOT a mystery to that one. Yes?
John 14:23
Romans 8:9, 10, 11
And as it did for Christ, such SPIRIT... makes our 'mortal' bodies 'alive' through the dwelling of it IN us. For withOUT such spirit, we are 'dead'. Yes? Adam did not become a LIVING soul UNTIL such spirit was put in him. And then he became 'bound' in a flesh that would not LET such spirit live freely, but bound it. My Lord, however, received HOLY SPIRIT, so that his SPIRIT... and not his FLESH... could live... freely. The flesh, was of no use at all, for it is the SPIRIT that lives.
Yes,to those who desires not seek the truth, but listen to the babbling of men who declair they know.
Perhaps. Tell me, though, Frank, what the 'truth' that men should seek? For ME, it is stated at John 8:32, John 14:6, John 8:36, John 17:17, John 1:14, and Revelation 19:13.
As for me, for those who say they know...they know nothing.
I absolutely agree, for even I know nothing. Even these things I do not know. It is my Lord who knows all things (excluding the date and the hour), for all things were given HIM, by my Father. And it is his spirit, the Spirit of the Truth, that receives such things from HIM... and teaches them to me.
Why you insist that Christ is a spirit when the bible clearly says that Christ said He was not a spirit.
Sigh! Frank, my Lord IS a spirit. And since YOU put YOUR trust in what 'the Bible says', it, too, says he is a spirit. He was put to death IN THE FLESH, but made alive IN THE SPIRIT. Thus, he became 'a life giving spirit', the HOLY spirit... the SPIRIT of the Truth!
1 Peter 3:18, 19
2 Corinthians 3:17
1 Corinthians 15:45
John 16:14; 14:6
As for Thomas...Christ said to him in John 20:28,"Touch me and see."You can put your hands through a spirit.So Thomas said that Christ is,"My Lord and My God."
Since we can now return to Thomas...
No, not necessarily. The 'men' who appeared to Abraham were spirits, and yet, they ate and drank with him and grabbed Lot by the hand. IF you can put your hand THROUGH a spirit, they would NOT have been able to "seize him by the hand"... or his wife and daughters... and bring them out of the city. True, they had to PUT ON FLESH in order to do so, but... they were STILL spirits!
You know, dear Frank, when I first entertained what you said, I wanted SO badly to agree with it, because it seemed to make sense. But like YOU, I do not listen to earthling man, but to my Lord who speaks to ME... 'from the heavens', the 'kingdom' that is 'is [my] midst'. And what HE explained to ME was:
1. The flesh is of no use at all, so that when he 'died', so that it would not 'see corruption', it was 'put off'. Like the Nephilim, the spirit beings who put ON flesh so as to have 'relations' with the daughters of men and put such flesh OFF when the deluge broke.
2. His spirit was then 'released' by means of such putting off, and entrusted to my Father, who sent such SPIRIT to the Sheol, the world of the dead, to preach to the SPIRITS there, the spirits of those HUMANS who died during the flood of Noah's day (and not wicked spirits, as the WTBTS teaches), so that THEY could put faith in him and perhaps be resurrected to LIFE... versus judgment. For though the body dies, the SPIRIT... must stand judgment and be destroyed. That is why the wicked spirits are still around: they don't just die, but must be DESTROYED... by fire!
Matthew 10:28
Revelation 20:7-10
3. Now, NORMALLY, such spirit is 'bound' in the world of the dead (that is why there are KEYS), but when my Lord went there he was GIVEN THE KEYS... to Hades AND Death... so that he could COME BACK. Which he did... as a spirit.
4. The flesh he had when he died, since it was of NO USE AT ALL, was CHANGED, so that when he was RAISED UP, he simply OCCUPIED flesh. The flesh, dear one, is simply a clay pot, and 'earthen' VESSEL. HIS spirit had received LIFE... so that whatever flesh it OCCUPIED could 'change'... metamorphoso... 'transfigure'... which is why he could 'disappear' and then appear again through walls/doors, eat food, appear solid, and ASCEND and DISAPPEAR. Flesh... with its BLOOD... cannot do that; only that spirit which has received a 'white robe'... can.
And he did not appear to them as a spirit, but as an 'able-bodied' man, such as Gabriel did for Daniel, in order to keep his disciples from being 'lost'. How is that? Do you remember the LACK OF FAITH of the Israelites in the wilderness and the result of such LACK OF FAITH? Although they had SEEN the 10 plagues and CROSSED the Red Sea and SEEN Pharoah, et al., destoyed in that sea, they lost FAITH in God and cried out for meat! As if He had killed a bunch of people, including children, brought them out, opened a sea... only to let them die of starvation in the wilderness! What an insult, so that although He gave them meat, when it was yet in their teeth, they were annihilated!
And yet, here were Christ disciples, who had SEEN the miracles he'd performed, Peter had walked on water himself, crowds had been fed, sick had been healed, dead had been raised... and yet, THEY STILL LACKED FAITH! Thomas (since you have permitted a return to his account) SAID, "UNLESS I SEE the prints of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will CERTAINLY NOT believe!"
He didn't say, "Well, I dunno, maybe it's you, maybe it isn't." He said he would NOT believe. Now, based on that STATED lack of faith, Thomas SHOULD have been DISMISSED, perhaps even reaped the 'portion' of Annanias. I mean, my Father had JUST sacrificed His OWN SON so these NON-BELIEVERS could sit on thrones and judge the 12 tribed of Israel. And now here they were, hiding, doubting... and 'putting God to the test'!
However, my Lord had already 'lost' ONE... and had NO intention of losing another. So... OUT OF LOVE... he provided Thomas and the others what THEY needed in order to regain faith. Just as the Israelites NEEDED quail and manna. But because a NEW law was in place, a law of LOVE... rather than DISMISS these for their lack of faith, a MANIFESTATION was provided to 'save' them. In order to SAVE THEM... he gave them what they NEEDED... a body of flesh and bone... to restore their faith.
(Funny, the WOMEN needed nothing more than to hear his voice... and they BELIEVED... immediately! And were content to SERVE, rather than be 'great', as the men continually argued about, contending among thmselves even AFTER the outpouring of holy spirit!)
So if you're not a Witness why do you put your faith into men?
Me?! I am neither a Witness nor have I put my faith in men. You are putting YOUR faith in an account written by a man, which account was not even inspired. To the contrary, however, I have put MY faith... in the Truth. I have 'exercised faith' in the One who speaks to me, whose voice I hear... by BELIEVING what he has said to my and NOT doubting at all... even though your argument APPEARED feasible... and have not held back from telling you what he has told me... whether you agree or not... or that it WAS he that spoke it TO me.
From 'source' then, is YOUR 'knowledge', other than accounts written by MEN? Is it not YOU who put your 'trust, in earthling man'?
Men will forever fail you.
Indeed. Thus, I do not put my trust in earthling man, whether his name be Luke... Paul... or Reverend Frank... but exercise faith in GOD... and the One whom He sent forth. If HE tells me what is 'written' is truth, then I believe it. However, as I have shared with those here on many occasions previously, one of the FIRST things my Lord taught me was:
"All things I say to you are written (though perhaps
not in the 'Bible', for there are many other writings);
yet, not all things that are written will I say to you,
for the false pen and false stylus of the copyists had
rendered much that is written false."
So, I can read and believe what I read unquestioningly (is that a word?)... OR... I can put my trust in my Lord, listen to HIM... and let HIM explain to me what is written, whether it is truth or not, whether it has been mistranslated/mistransliterated or not... or whether what the writer SAID... it was occurred and/or what was MEANT. Since he is the Truth and thus the SOURCE of Truth, I put my trust in him.
Matthew 17:3
Peace Be Unto You...................
And to you, as well, dear Frank. Sincerely. My peace... remains.
YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,
SJ
