To: Psychdigg - What about the Children?

by Amazing 22 Replies latest jw friends

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  Amazing

  Psychdigg: I will make a more detailed response later today. However, you said something that raised a red flag:

  "Bowen has never established that JW's have more cases of Child Abuse than the general population. I have seen figures that 1 out of 3 females and 1 out of 4 males claim they were sexually molested when they were children. Legal cases don't reflect those large numbers because it is apparent society in general doesn't handle this very well."

  This iss is NOT about the ratio of JW pedophiles compared to the rest of Society ... it is the fact that the pedophiles they do have are shielded more so than the rest of Society. More importantly, like the Catholic Church, the Watchtower religion fails to openly deal with this issue, and instead turn on those who bring the message.

  Why did Bill Bowen and others bring this messages as they have? Because the Watchtower directs the cover up of child molestation, and do not respond to Elders who object to this ... so the media and the authorities have to be told ... and even then the Watchtower still acts like nothing is wrong. That is the problem!
• 

  Psychdigg

  Larc:

  Some of these same questions are popping up all over.

  Legal action will stop a few molesters but "evolution" rears its ugly head.Yes I believe in evolution! Our animal and even early human ancestors thought nothing of grabbing siblings or any female in the troop that smelled like she was ripe irrespective of age. Society is a human "mental" construct. We restrict ourselves to one mate because it stops male competition for females. The result is a lot of idle time that can be spent building roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, churches, painting, composing beautiful music, etc. Some people don't get the message in their cortex that they have to keep the lizard brain in check.

  Religion is primarily an educational institution. And this is where the Watchtower has failed to protect its children. There should be at least one chapter in the Young People Ask book about resisting the sneaky approaches of molesters. And there should be an occasional Drama at the district assemblies dealing with the full sweep of the problem. A drama could show a committe dealing with a case of molestation - including the molesters MO, the pain and embarassment to the victim, and the shame and crisis for the perpetrators family and then the agony of the victims family deciding to go to the police.
  THIS more than some organizational policy would do the most good.

  The Watchtower has had a policy. You can have a great policy but by their own admission it isn't always followed. That is where education comes in. You don't need special professional training. You need awareness that this stuff can be prevented by concerned parents and savvy children.
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  Will Power

  HILDA
  

  If there are serious cases of pedophilia going on among the Witnesses, these problems need to be addressed ASAP.

  asap YOU SAY? Is 14 years asap? That is how long they have tried to get someone to listen to this serious problem. If you knew of a case personally would you be as wishy washy, uncaring? so quick to say NO WAY, my shepard would surely protect me.
  Would you try to "quietly" have something done for 14 years?
  When would you go public?

  Obviously you do not have the facts but continue to accuse those that do of lying. You are the one in the dark.
  Are you a GB sales rep in charge of circulation or something?

  p.s. bible scriptures DO NOT make your accusations honorable. Anyone who reads to bible as from god does not use it to attack, suppress, conquer, or debase.
• 

  larc

  Psychdigg,

  You say you have a good policy. I don't think your policy is good at all. According to policy, you can't bring a charge unless their is a witness to the crime. How many pedophiles have visitors come in to witness a crime? Scant few. If modern society had such a policy, most crimes would never be solved, such as murder, rape, and burglery.

  Now, the next part of the policy: take your complaint to the elders. Bad idea. They are untrained in matters of investigation, and clinical interviewing techniques. The third part of the policy is bad. Don't take it to the authorities unless the state requires it. So what is the result of all this. If you have read the accounts, I think you know. The innocent are punished, and the criminals go free.
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  Psychdigg

  It doesn't matter how you evaluate the policy. As you know there are also serious problems with the present legal system. Professionals in the field of abuse lack knowledge of how to handle "sin". Many innocent men have gone to jail because they didn't have money to hire competent legal counsel so they have to plea bargain for a lower prison term. And it costs a lot to defend against a molestation charge. Very few lawyers are willing to confront a legal system that is weighted in favor of alleged victims.

  Combine that with problems of false memory and the hysteria that surrounds this issue and I would say that there is no permanent policy in place anywhere that is 100% adequate.

  Who are you to determine what is a good policy. Your policy is simply one of shifting the process to public professionals. This is not a guarantee of "good" management of the situation. Each parent needs to decide what is best for THEIR child.

  You never hear of the many cases the JW's have handled that turned out well. That's the nature of the situation.

  But as I said before having a good policy is still not the answer. You choose to ignore that aspect of the argument.

  One thing is sure. No Bill Bowen is going to impose HIS policy on the organization. No organization of catholics is going to talk the pope into doing away with celibacy so that the priesthood is no longer a freak magnet.

  Larc, you have no intellectual backbone. You like to placate the people in this forum. Well I guess we're all mostly water anyhow.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Hilda and Psychic,

  When ya'll start to defend teh Catholic Church like you have the WatchTower you'll gain some credability. NOT UNTIL THEN THOUGH.

  You said,

  If individual elders screw up they deserve to be sued. If the GB screw up they deserve to be sued also.

  Well, they've screwed up, they should be sued.

  
  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
• 

  jerome

  Psychic

  At first I thought that you were simply a die hard JW who just started to post here to defend the JW religion.

  Well as it would appear you seem to be more liberal in that you actually reply to valid concerns. But never the less you still defend the Wt policy.

  As I see it your main concern is that

  William Bowen has no hard evidence to support the allegedly large numbers of pediopheila within the Watchtower Society.

  You further back up your claim by bringing to light the aspects of the JW culture which frown apon anything that could be considered immoral shuch as R rated movies, revealing attire, fornication etc...

  You have a point here as I have thought about this myself.

  jerome
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  jerome

  I know alot of posters on this board dont consider other denominations of Christendom to have anything much more to offer than the JW religion itself.

  My concern with this veiw is that I personally cannot fathom how anyone could consider a modern Pthhodox Protestant Christian denomination to be in the same class as the JWs. Especially when it comes to having something to offer.

  Christians opperate

  a) Homeless shelters
  b) Soup kitchens
  c) Have missionaries who help less fortuinate nations develope themselves
  d) Are far more religeously tolerant
  e) Offer a personal relationship with Jesus Christ insteaad of having to go through another mediator
  f) And the best part is that this is all free. No questions asked. A Christian would help anyone nomatter his faith.

  and the list goes on...

  How does this compare to the JWs?

  jerome
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  larc

  Psych,

  Your logic looks pretty weak to me. Since our legal system is not prefect, and investigative methods can be flawed, then, your answer is to use even a much worse system by far, to wit, the body of poorly educated and untrained elders. Yep, I will take an electrician over a child psychologist any day of the week. Yep, and a judical committee decision over the ruling of a court judge seems like a fine idea too.

  Question: when will the Kingdom Halls come equiped with forensic labs for evidence testing? Just curious.
• 

  jerome

  One thing that concerns me very deeply about the Watchtower is that they claim exclusivity when it comes to God.

  Ordinary Christians say that Jesus is free to everyone all you have to doo is acept him into your heart and you will be saved.

  While JWs teach that this notion is unbiblical and that you must work out your salvation mainly by preaching from door to door [selling WT literature] and attending meetings.

  They go even further to demonize all other Religions Christian or otherwise and state that they are directed by satan. Christians consider this to be a grave insult because Christians try to keep their lives clean and avoid demonic infeluence as much as possible. They shurely donot seek out the devil. Neither do they purposely teach doctrines which they know to be biblically inaccurate. We consider shuch to be heritical.

  True Christians do not purposely go out trying to deceive people.

  And Christians label any religious organisation that does not teach biblically doctrines to be a cult.