How do JWs Not see how barbaric YHWH is? Its what started my awakening.

by BU2B 142 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  jam

  When I sat down and begin to study the Bible, I lost faith. Ironic

  don't you think. As a JW you don't have time to study the Bible. LOL
• 

  cofty

  Paranoia Agent - I have no idea what you just said.

  You made an offensive personal attack on somebody who was sincerely trying to explain the OT. I objected - you waffled about Hitler.

  If you can't reason on what somebody has said don't resort to ad hominem
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  nonjwspouse: Here is my highly simplistic view, if it even makes sense.

  .

  I'm with cofty on this. There was not a hint of dogmatism in njws's comments---just a personal view-nothing more. No reason to question the person's intelligence or make caustic jabs.
• 

  nonjwspouse

  As I explained, this is a simplistic viewpoint.

  Mens numerous and heavier laws about God were created in the belief that those laws were what God wanted. Did God support the killings and slavery, or was that mans interpretation of what they believed God wanted? Jesus came to show us that he did not.

  I am not a person that believes in strict literal translation of the Bible either. This also helps explain how the absurdity of the interpretation of the will of God was presented in those old testament books of stories, analagies, parables etc., was used to make points, not to take as literal. Plus meanings over centuries and translations also take on new meanings in new languages. I feel tradition stemming from the early days of the christian church is an important componont of how we should model ourselves today. (It is definatly not about preaching from house to house to people not of our faith) in fact, Romans 15:20 states "not be building on someone elses foundation". If Jesus has been talked about there, then they were not to try to convert away from those teachings of Christ.

  As in modern attentions, it is the absurd, the horrid, the vicious and fear that grabs attention. Why would it not be so back then as well. The basis of the story was there, but the details were exaggerated and enhanced to the point of absurdity, in order to get a point across.

  I am no Bible scholar, I am only just beginning. But so far, this is how I am feeling about the message Jesus brought about what God wants for the his people.

  Plus, I find it an intrequing notion the idea that Satan must have eaten from the tree of everlasting life. ... really, how else would he still be around if he did not?
• 

  cofty

  nonjwspouse - If the OT is not a revelation from god, have you ever wondered why he was silent for so long?

  We know that humans like us have been around for over 100 000 years and yet god waited until 2000 years ago to send a carpenter to echo a saying that he got from previous moral teachers.

  Does this seem likely?
• 

  nonjwspouse

  Cofty, maybe he had tried, but without sending a human created in the image of himself, to show them the way the point didn't get across. Maybe that was the only way to really get the idea across? God created us in the image of himself.

  I really don't know how long is too long, or how long is not enough. In the end, how does it matter. We will not know all of this in our lifetimes.

  What we do know is that to make other people happy, to help them, to give to other, is what helps us be better people. I have to believe this is what God sent Jesus to teach us. The time frame is beyond my ability to really understand. For us, jJesus was real, written about, followed, and he taught to disobey the man made laws that they claimed were from God. Disobey those laws that put the the law over human life on this earth that we live in now. He taught us to cherish our lives, our bodies, our family and friends. He taught us to use our talents, not hide or subdue them.

  Again. I am just expressing a point of view here. I have read a lot, but of course not as uch as many of you probably have. I study daily, but it will not be enough to fully understand it all. I doubt anyone can fully understand it all. We just do the best we can, with what we have, and take each day as a blessing to make a positive difference in just one life.
• 

  cofty

  I would suggest you are speaking about a Jesus of mythology. The Jesus of the gospels was not worthy of our admiration.
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  I appreciate when someone expresses an opinion but leaves room for more questions.

  That being said, I cannot help but notice in most of these "explanations" as to why god did or did not take action, why he took the route he did, why he chose not to act, etc., rather than build an image of an omniscient, omnipotent deity, god comes across more as an incredibly inept bumbling fool who cannot think his way out of a wet paper bag. And this is from god's supporters.

  .

  It is absurd to believe, as theists assert, that god had the ability to create all complex life that exists, and then once created, has no idea how to manage, communicate with, direct, or help it. If god is that impotent then why would there be any reason to accept this same god had the ability to create something as benign as a rock? And why would anyone feel this god is worthy of admiration and worship? And why do theists do an incredible dance to avoid facing the obvious conclusions that result from simple questions and logic, and instead revert to feel-good ideas composed of pixie dust and fluffy bunnies flying under the banner of serious theology?

  .

  "God is indeed dead.
  He died of self-horror
  when He saw the creature He had made
  in His own image." --- Irving Layton (b. 1912), Canadian poet. The Whole Bloody Bird, "Aphs" (1969)

  .

  "Forgive, O Lord, my little jokes on Thee
  And I’ll forgive Thy great big one on me."

  --- Robert Frost
• 

  Shanagirl

  The bible pretty much says Jehovah is an ego-maniacal god of war and tyranny who if not obeyed, claims he will send you into eternal destruction. He rules via fear and intimidation as tyrants do. He requires death for the smallest of infractions, and even demands the murder of entire cities/nations for arbitrary reasons.

  Yet he has managed to garner billions of followers on this world who give him tribute in the form of worship, prayer and sacrifice, ie: energy, and they all believe he is a merciful and loving god, when the facts say otherwise.

  Look at the story of the garden... the story is a big allegory of course, but allegorical for what, exactly? It was Lucifer who brought knowledge to Adam and Eve, and showed them the bondage of ignorance they were restrained in. As Lucifer can be translated from Greek as "Bringer of Dawn", it is fitting to call the garden story the allegory of humanitys long night in the darkness of ignorance, and the "Bringer of Dawn" who signaled the impending rising of the light, and the banishing of the dark.

  Any wonder why Yahweh got mad? Just like our own tyrannical governments of this day and age, an informed and educated people were/are this entities worst enemy. Lucifer broke Yahwehs monopoly/dominance over and control of information. But instead of recognizing this, the vast majority believes Lucifer is a demon, and some deluded ones even worship him as such.

  Also:
  
  Christians might claim they worship Jesus, not Yahweh. Perhaps they do, but why do they worship someone who clearly did not seek the peoples worship, nor wanted to be anyones leader? It is clear Jesus wanted one thing: not worship, but for the people to emulate his behavior, to be LIKE him, not to think him a god and beg him for free stuff. That's the OLD way, which he came to uproot. He called us his friends and siblings, NOT his minions and serfs.

  Unfortunately, it hasnt been uprooted that well... instead of the people thinking for themselves about his words, they depend on an authority, controlled by the same evil that would or does have them all worshiping a clearly genocidal maniac, to read the words, interpret them, and then spoon feed them the meaning.

  One could say Jesus and Lucifer are one in the same. Wouldn't it be ironic, but strangely sensical that the original Bringer of Dawn, demonized through out the ages, who expects nothing in return, would come back to further assist knowing he would probably be murdered by those he was trying to save?

  So:

  Whats the conspiracy here? Its that billions of people have been brainwashed into believing that evil is good, and good is evil, and would be willing to die to defend their false notions. What better way to divide the people than to make them into walking contradictions, thinking they are doing good, when they are really doing evil? They have the people unwittingly divided at their very most core level; themselves.

  Its also that they've got you believing the truth is complicated through years of mandatory indoctrination at school.
  
  Its not.
  
  Set the mountains of manure in the pages of the "holy" book ablaze, and after the fire dies and the wind scatters the ashes some tiny precious gems will remain steadfast and eternal, outliving the convolution and obfuscation of what they were buried under.

  Treat others as you would be treated " is the first gem, and most powerful IMO.
  
  " Love your neighbor as yourself " is the second.

  There is nothing else we need to know or exercise to reveal the truth, and come out of the illusion. Those two things are so simple... so precise! Think of what they include, but also, perhaps even more importantly, think of what they EXCLUDE. Any mention of worshiping anyone? Any mention of what KIND of neighbor to love? Any mention of exceptions to WHO should be treated as you would like to be?

  So stop worshiping Yahweh/Satan. You are giving your energy to evil. Stop worshiping Jesus. He wants you to emulate his actions, not be smug and complacent because you think you've got a free ticket to heaven.

  Shana
• 

  paul from cleveland

  Shana, everything you're writing in this thread is very interesting. Where are you reading about this? Can you recommend some books or websites that discuss this topic in more detail?