Israel ... Jehovah ... The Promised Land ... Genocide

by wannabefree 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    "If even the women and children were allowed to remain, they would entice the Israelites to practice immoral, false worship" -- W 10/15/68

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    Really? Those Canaanite children must have been incredible salesman !! Wow...a mere child could persuade an adult to leave the "true" god YHWH and worship a fictitious god. Amazing. What it says about the Israelite's religion and their god YHWH is this: neither are worth a damn if a little child can dismantle them so easily.

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    Perry, are you going to answer the question: why did YHWH kill children when he claimed killing children is offensive to him?

  • Perry
    Perry

    Shirley, you cannot deal with language. In order to converse, agreed upon definitions are used to develope arguments. I illustrated that the common definition of "God" is rejected by you. When people have different definitions they end up arguing about different things, which is what we are doing.

    Please answer this question:

    If God is perfect and you are not - how could you possibly be sure that you could tell the difference?

    If you choose to run from this question, that's fine with me. But it is still there.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Perry, I don't know what tactic you are trying to use to deflect from my topic of God directing Israelite soldiers to slaughter innocent (unresponsible) children for the sins of their parents as not being in keeping with your selection of parents tossing their children into the fire.

  • Perry
    Perry

    why did YHWH kill children when he claimed killing children is offensive to him?

    Shirley, I assume that he figured a greater good would occur by passing judgment on the entire community. This assumption is in harmony with, and is consistent with the dictionary definition of "God" as being perfect.

    Now, your turn.....answer my question.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    I see, Perry. Your Bible is the dictionary and is the basis for your beliefs. I have some news for you, Perry- the dictionary is not a religious book nor is it the basis for formulating a belief system defining what god is/is not.

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    What we are discussing here is: how are the Bible's accounts of god killing children justified, when god himself claimed killing children is offensive to him?

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    Perry: If God is perfect and you are not - how could you possibly be sure that you could tell the difference?

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    If your mind is so flawed or inadequate you are only able to make "assumptions" as to why god contradicts himself as a liar, then how is your mind suddenly qualified to determine that god is "perfect"?

  • westiebilly11
    westiebilly11

    i find it hard to fathom the god of the bible....supposedly the reason why mankind is suffering is because the issue of sovereignty was raised in garden of eden.....but the more i think about this viewpoint the more i fail to see why a god would a) have allowed his sovereignty to be challenged ( in this case by 'satan')....and b) subjecting mankind to suffering for so long just to prove god's righteousness is rather like me as a father allowing an intruder into the home to murder my children and me saying 'there you are...i'm a good dad..'....logic fails me in all of this..

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Perry: I assume that he figured a greater good would occur by passing judgment on the entire community.

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    Then why does history condemn Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot? Didn't they do the exact same thing god did? Wipe out entire communities ("genocide") for some alleged "greater good"? By your own twisted logic, can I conclude you see no moral issue with the actions of the Hitlers of the world?

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    Incidentally, what actions by an infant or small child could possibly merit a death sentence?

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    BTW, Perry- "assumptions" are not evidence or a sound rebuttal. Quit dancing and commit yourself to an answer...

  • humbled
    humbled

    "Well-founded, cogent, true, admirable" is one of the several dictionary definitions for the word "good".

    As I was scrolling down the thread i was glad to see ADCMS hold up Perry's insistence on finding a common ground for defining "God".

    But there must be a shared definition of GOOD as well as GOD.

    Do they fit together, Perry?

  • Perry
    Perry

    Shirely, you don't paly fair. I answered your question; why don't you answer mine:

    If God is perfect and you are not - how could you possibly be sure that you could tell the difference?

    westibilly questions:

    supposedly the reason why mankind is suffering is because the issue of sovereignty was raised in garden of eden.....but the more i think about this viewpoint the more i fail to see why a god would a) have allowed his sovereignty to be challenged

    This is not what happened in the G of E. This is what the WT says happened. Nowhere does the bible say this. What really happened is that Adam and Eve exercised their free will right to not believe God. When they did this, they disconnected themselves and their children from the Source of Life. Decay, the natural state of the physical world took its course. God's sovereignty was never in question. This is a subterfuge delimma created by the WT.

    humbled muses:

    But there must be a shared definition of GOOD as well as GOD. Do they fit together, Perry?

    I think they do. For those that accept the dictionary definition of God, they must also accept that good can only be ultimately defined by God, the only perfect and all-knowing being. Apart from God, we certainly have strong notions of good and evil, having been created in his image unlike the animals; but the details are worked out from a viewpoint of limited perception. God has no such limits. On a personal level, we are under obligation to love our neighbor as ourselves. Governments, exercising a greater responsibility, define more complicated issues of governance that include life and death issues at times. Governments are given more latitude becasue of the greater responsibilities involved. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Perry is suggesting we can't know that genocide actually wrong.

    If that is so then Jesus did a terrible job of educating us about the meaning of love.

    You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

    How do you reconcile Jesus' description of perfect love with Yahweh's command to commit genocide and infanticide?

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