by EndofMysteries 153 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
EOM - You have still to explain how the complexity of chameleon chromatophore control in any way casts doubt on evolution.
Your entire thread can be summed up as "I don't understand how cameleons can do that shit, therefore I won't trust one of the most well-attested theories in all of science, even though I have never read a single book on the topic, and I demand somebody explain it to me now."
Have you read the paper yet?
why didn't you take the WT's word on being critical of them because you don't understand?
Because I did understand. I spent countless hours making a systematic study of particular topics and became more of an expert on those subjects than the GB.
Before you became athiest did you just accept what so called experts and scientists said because you believed they knew best
No I have been reading science for the past 10 years. I started with "Evolution Made Simple" and was amazed at how little I knew.
Why don't you commit a few months to reading at least the basics of evolution?
EOM- there were black and white (and other colour moths), but due to the colour of ash trees, the white moths were the largest in number originally because they hid well due to their colour, they survived more, procreated more so those genes previaled more. When the smog came, the black ones didn't pop out of nowhere, they already existed, but now their colour was more advantageous. So they lived more, they procreated more and their genes prevailed.
Nobody said that they evolved and mutated to be black there and then.
Listen, nothing beats teaching yourself VIA BOOKS the in's and outs of evolution. For some time now, you have come and asked these same questions over and over again, if you really want to know, go get the books.
This is a complex topic and you are making evident by your questions that you have not grasped the basics. I mean it in the most sincere way, go and get some books.
Chameleons' mastery of camouflage goes further than anyone expected - it seems they can fine-tune their colour changes to the visual systems of specific predators.
Are you suggesting a supernatural force caused this ability to develop?
So then...
...God made animals adapt to nature's violence?
...Satan did this?
rebel8 - why limit it to a supernatural force? Another advanced life form whose scientific and biological advancements far surpassed our own, able to create and or tweak life forms. If there is no 'supernatural' force, as of now it feels to me that we are not the origin of life, we are byproducts of something else.
Let's say humans develop AI and either create a digital universe or advance robots that can learn, duplicate, evolve, etc, and they are dumped on another planet. Would the digital universe or robots on another planet eventually believe that they evolved from nothing? there would be no evidence of us, their creators being there.
The alternative to somehow it all just happening is not the only possibly explanation. Infact in the bible, did not Peter or Paul have that vision of a vessel dumping all kinds of animals and creatures on the earth, when he declared all animals may be acceptable to eat? (as if that vessel was a spaceship?)
I am merely suggesting intelligence involved. Is it impossible that one day scientists will be able to figure out a way to create life and create new species, abilities? What's to say another life form didn't do that with us long ago?
cofty yes I read the article, " Overall, our results support the predictions of the social signalling hypothesis but not the crypsis hypothesis, suggesting that the evolution of dramatic colour change in some chameleon species evolved as a strategy to facilitate social signalling."
I agree that some of it is related to social signalling.
I agree that some of it is related to social signalling.
You should let Stuart-Fox and Moussalli know, they will be relieved.
Evolution is clearly visible in the microbiology with development of resistance to present medicine or from aquiring immunity of people. For example earlier plagues, syphillis, influenza and other had changed over the years as people became more resistant to it, or the medicine involved that the bacteria or viruses had to adapt. Also you can look into domestication of animals and plants how they developed over the years. Today apples are different from original apple trees that grew up in Persia and were brought into Europe by Alexander Macedon. Oranges, plums, walnuts, dates had developed over the thousands years, they have different taste, different pests and diseases. This process took over numerous generations over thousands of years. Evolution is observeble, almost all major christian denominations outside USA do not have problem with it, including Catholich church.
I liked apognophos" remarks on post 2009. There are many good questions that help to enlighten less educted-in-the-speciality members.
Often the book recommended to not really adress the question at hand but cramm in more detail that appear to be the clinching argument, but just give explanations, learned Jargon, novel names, classifications based on ancient languages.
thank you for the flounder pictures. used to try to catch little ones when I was lttle and the water un-polluted. The stereo vision from those elevated eyes helped to reproduced a pretty good pattern of the checkerboard that could be seen from that vantage point, and I am sure no 'thinking' was involved.
The eye-closing was a good analogy.
Cuttle fish are another level of colour use, fooling protecting males, getting a hit on the female, that is willing, because having ALSO offspring from a smaller but SMARTER, and more conniving male would benefit part of her offspring in the next round of selection of the fittest.
The big question is at what point did life aquire tis now automatic upgrading, we call the evolutionary PROCESS. cofty waiting for you one-liner.
http://www.pbs.org/edens/madagascar/creature3.htm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080128-chameleon-color.html
Not that EOM will even glance at these, but someone here might look.
One aspect of evolution that does not make sense to me is how some people can be so blinded by their own mind and ignore the clear evidence that evolution is real.
Good day.
