Critical Thinking from the Wife !! (page 2)

stuckinarut2

Great suggestions guys!

Definately dont appear too eager and get too excited when she raises a point.

Play it cool and calm and almost 'non fussed' even if inside you are jumping for joy. If someone who raises an point of observation senses that we are ready to jump on the topic and slam more TTATT, it could send them running the opposite way and they could pull their head back into the tortoise shell and we could lose them forever.

It is far better to allow someone to wake slowly for themselves than to drag them out of slumber!

wannabefree

Any sign of critical thinking is good. I would say, don't flood her, but find subtle ways to keep her progressing. I had similar questions as a JW, however, even though I pondered such things, it still took years to wake me up. I'm not saying your wife's case isn't something to be hopeful about, but, I didn't have anybody close to me who knew TTATT to try to keep the ball rolling.

I remember having discussions ... here is basically how one coversation went ...

JW: Won't it be great in the new system, being perfect, never making a mistake?

WBF: I don't think being perfect and never making mistakes are necessarily the same thing.

JW: Yes it does. When we are perfect, we will act with perfect insight and all of our decsions will be perfect.

WBF: Are you saying then that there will not be choices? Because if there is a perfect answer, then the outcome of some choices may not be perfect, so we will always choose the perfect answer?

JW: Yes.

WBF: Well, that just doesn't make sense to me. I don't think that's what it means to be perfect. What if you were walking on a trail and tripped over a rock or a tree root and fell down and cut your knee? Would that mean you weren't perfect?

JW: That wouldn't happen. You would be completely aware of your environment and wouldn't trip.

WBF: If Adam and Eve were created perfect and would never have accidents, then why would God create us to have our blood coagulate? When we get cut, our blood cleans the wound, forms a scab and we heal. When we break a bone, it will heal. If God never intended that such things would happen, why would he make it so that we would heal? I think in the new system we will still have accidents, I don't think that's what it means to be perfect.

JW: I think you are wrong. Are you trying to cause doubt?

.......................................

I always liked to think critically ... although I didn't realize this is what it was called ... and had many different conversations over the years where I would play "devil's advocate" ... yet remained a believer. But nobody around me was leading my critical thinking in a productive way. Fortunately your wife has you to lead her in her reasoning. Maybe if you play this out strategically, you can help her on the path of learning the truth about the truth.

Oubliette

Great question! It's right up there with, "Why do lions eat baby gazelles when in the new system they will all eat grass together?"

respectful_observer

I think in the new system we will still have accidents, I don't think that's what it means to be perfect.

Bingo. I love it when they say "We won't need doctors and nurses in the New System!"

R_O: "Really? What happens if you break your leg? Wouldn't you want a medical professional to set the bone?"

"We won't break our legs; we'll be perfect."

R_O: "So what happens if you're walking and a big branch breaks or a rock suddenly comes loose and falls on you?"

"We'll be perfect, so we'll know not to walk that way at that time."

R_O: "So you're saying we'll be able to see the future?"

"Well no, but even if something did fall on us, we wouldn't get hurt."

R_O: "So you're saying we'll be indestructable?"

"Well no, but...."

BU2B

Great news. It is encouraging to hear some independent thought and questioning isnt it? Shows the brain isnt completely on auto-pilot.

leaving_quietly

R_O: "So what happens if you're walking and a big branch breaks or a rock suddenly comes loose and falls on you?"

"We'll be perfect, so we'll know not to walk that way at that time."

R_O: "So you're saying we'll be able to see the future?"

"Well no, but even if something did fall on us, we wouldn't get hurt."

R_O: "So you're saying we'll be indestructable?"

"Well no, but...."

As I was reading this, I thought about Christ's experience at Matt 4:5,6:

"Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him on the battlement of the temple and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you,’ and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’"

Since JWs believe that Christ was perfect, and many believe he could not die unless God took away his holy spirit, then why did Satan even give this challenge? Why did he say he would be saved by angels? To me, this could be used as proof that a "perfect" person CAN get hurt.

Vidiot

I remember having a similar moment with my wife a few years back (I was already well into my fade).

She'd asked, "why would God make humans with such overwhelmingly strong sex drives as teenagers if we aren't supposed to have sex?" (paraphrasing, but that's the gist).

I answered the way you (TTATTelder) did, with "Wow, good question...", then followed it up with "...I can't speak for God, but anthropologists have suggested that our caveman ancestors simply developed that way via natural selection to ensure the maximum survival odds for the species."

She looked quite thoughtful after that.

villagegirl

Now if only we could see some critical thinking from elders,

and men in general. The world has been essentially run by men

for thousands of years, the results speak for themselves.

TTATTelder

Wow Villagegirl ... sorry for your past abuse from men.

We aren't all like that.

My comments in the OP weren't from being surprised my wife's comments came from a woman (that feels stupid even typing that) but because they were critical and completely free of my influence.

Everyone else got it.

Its a good thing. .... Looking forward to future observations from her.

I agree with BU2B all the way.

Thanks for the comments everybody.

Critical Thinking from the Wife !!

breakfast of champions