Metatron - Lamarckianism and epigenetics are not the same thing, bad science journalism notwithstanding.
Want to know why people accept evolution ?
by snare&racket 84 Replies latest jw friends
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kaik
Evolution can be observed from many sources, not only from fossils. We can traces it from vegatation that leaves traces that can be analyzed after thousands of years like pollen or woods. Trees like spruce, magnolias, or fruit trees can tells us about mutation and adaptation. Diseases like syphillis, pox, plague also shows mutation and we can even pinpoint to origin of such outbreaks. However, the evolution from one spicies to other is a process that took hundreds of thousands of years over thousands of generations.
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Amelia Ashton
I only have to look at my 2 axolotls Carlos and Caspar to understand how evolution makes more sense than creation and happened over millions of years of time when I have these amazing creatures in my own home.
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snare&racket
Disposable hero, now can you summarise what you think we know about the fossil record, what you think fossils are, what about them led to the idea of evolution.
yeah i think discussing this stuff and realising what people believe is important, because how else can we signpost them to info. I am sure there are anonymous readers that will appreciate your input and explinations.
I must admit, I was very suprised at your explination of evolution. Only 7 years ago, I would have said 'we used to be monkeys?'.......shameful face.
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bohm
Appolegists and creationists keep asking scientist to show the fossils that illustrate one species turning into another. This is simply a disengenious debate tactic. For any two fossils, either the two fossils will clearly belong to different species (say a bat and a bird) and the creationist will simply reply this support his view. Alternatively, the two fossils will belong to very similar species (say two species of ducks) and the fossils will look so closely alike he will say they belong to the same species and it is just an example of variation.
What can be shown is the fossil record is consistent with predictions of evolutionary theory, that is, show gradual transition between the larger forms. This has been confirmed time and time again for all larger life forms i can think of. Any person who doubt this is the case for any particular annimal should simply type in: "<animal name> fossil record" in google.
A good illustration of this fallacy is a person who doubt stallar evolution and ask an astronomer to "proove" it by observations; then he go on to dismiss all observation of stars in their various stages of life because they do not show one star transitioning from a cloud of gas to eg. a brown dwarf. It would simply be missing the nature of the evidence.
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disposable hero of hypocrisy
SNARE - I must admit 6 months ago I would have said the evolutionary theory says we all came from monkeys too, it's only through listening to science and athiest shows that I now comprehend the MASSIVE timescale involved and the very specific lineage of modern man.
But here's where I'm going to fall short, fossils! My knowledge of fossils is entirely based on what WT has told me. Fossils, in my brain, are the remnants or even just the imprints, of fauna and flora that died, were embedded in mud, and left their pattern for us to see. According to me, the fossil record shows distinct groupings of 'kinds' or species. There are no 'in-between' fossils proving what evolution says should happen, one species transforming gradually into another. And the fossil record also shows that animals appear on the earth in the same order as the creation account.
Hit me!
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jgnat
Live, genetic variation in action; the Junco:
Try googling Burgess Shale and tell me what "kind" or on which "creative day" those creatures were thought up, LOL
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kaik
"In between" fossils for some point species on its own, sometime for million years. Humans, monkeys, and other primates share common ancestry. Darwin did not know that because in the 19th century lacked understanding evolution as we have it today. Today we know that human race came from various migration pattern of primates from Eastern Africa. Back during Darwin era, the science did not know DNA nor molecular biology. They did not know that humans and neanderthal coexist and even interbreed. What we see as today in human species is a result of process that started 2.2 million years ago. We as people happened to win in the process around 70,000 due bottleneck pressure which was result of Toba volcanic explosion. However, this was not only the genetic bottleneck in the human's past, nor it affected only people. Similar bottleneck pressure around the same timeframe affected other large mamals.
As a vivid gardener, I know that evolution happened in vegetation and can detected by tracing original ancestry of present trees and shrubs. Look into apple tree which originated in Central Asia. The DNA analysis showed that all present apple trees can be detected to one region in the world, from there they were cultivated and distributed world wide. It was a process that took about 7000 years. This altered a behavior of bees, aphids, fungus, and bacteria that need apple fruit. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684696/pdf/rspb20090355.pdf
The same process affected all flora, especially after the last Ice Age. You can still go to various spruce parks around USA Eastern coast that are the leftover the glaciation. In northern hemisphere due extensive knowledge of glaciation we can trace ancestry of many flora that were left from interglaciation period and how they differed from ancestral plants. Some of the flora evolved so much that cannot even hybrid together from its ancestral plant. As the flora evolved, so did births, insects, fungus, and bacteria.
Genesis is myth where according to it plants appeared on the third day yet sun was created on the fourth day. How plants made photosynthesis without sun?
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cultBgone
Love this thread, saving it for research. THANKS!
