Cofty, thanks for going back to basics, I really appreciate this simple explanation of current evolutionary theory. Zygotes and epigenetics - NAILED!
Want to know why people accept evolution ?
by snare&racket 84 Replies latest jw friends
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cha ching
Cofty, thx for the details.
Next thing on my list.... research porcupines...
cha ching!
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Make Lemonade
Seems you all have been having a great time. I like that.
Many things on this thread are really thought provoking. The idea of commonality. All living things have the same origen. Here is what has come up in my thoughts. It appears what is being discussed is similar to what Michael Crichton wrote about in his book Jurassic Park. The scientists used frog DNA to repair the DNA of a dinosaur. They got the DNA from a mosquito trapped in amber. That was science fiction, but it seems to me that being able to splice a part of a frog's DNA into a damaged dinosaur's DNA is related to commonality.
Also, the commonality of mathmatics in living things. Fibonacci Numbers, Golden Ratio, and Fractal Geometry would also show a commonality.
Am I on the right track?
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cha ching
still pondering....... -
kaik
Make Lemonade, trees are excellent source for preserving climate data. We can see from tree rings that climate cooled down 1816 (Year without summer), in the 14th century (staring little medieval ice age), or in the 6th century which coincide with the collapse of the Roman civilization in Europe. Previous changes can be traced to explosion of volcano Hekla in 1200BC and Thera in 1612BC. Each of these event is preserved in the tree rings. Once you put pieces together with other evidence like in glaciers and sediment, science can get very good picture about our environment. Further back in the geological times, the harder it gets, but science did not detect any global Flood in 2200BC or sudden origin of world 7000 years ago. World-wide we can from bogs and swamps locate decomposing trees and flora that can go back 10,000-20,000 years or more. There is not much difference if science pics Okefenokee swamp, peat bogs in Ireland or Finland, or dried trees in Tibet Plateau. Each of these pieces of trees will reveal climatic puzzle. We can overalay information from tree that grew 1200 years ago and overalap with tree rings that was around during the Caesar or Genghis Khan. Once we pass through timeframe defined by Genesis, we know that world is older than described by OT.
Bogs in Europe reveal burials of people that died 7000-9000 years ago. We can detect from the bogs the rate of deposits, decay, and growth. Since bogs and swamps cover 2.5% of land and due its acidity it preserves such details like human fingerprints or butter in the jars. Deserts climates that were lush with vegetation can preserve trunks as well for thousands of years. Some of them in Tibet are up to 2 millions years old.
Additionally, we can reconstruct flora which could not coexist, yet they appear at the same geographic location. As I had mentioned, mangolias used to be one the most common trees that were around during the age of dinosarus. Europe was covered by magnolia forests. Yet 5 million years ago, magnolias disappeared in Europe and most of Northern America during Ice Age. We do not see southern magnolia in Canada, New England or Great plains. Yet they used to grow there. Today southern magnolia originated from Caribbeans as the continental ice shield melted 12000 years ago. Each ice shield growth and retreat caused the change of the flora. Each trace can be again detected. Northern Hemisphere still rebounds from the weight of the Ice shield compression which generates localized, mild earthquake. The growth rate of the ice shield and its subsequent retreat can be again calculated. This can go back hundreds of thousand years.
I would say the best way to observe evolution is to go to the nature. Touring swamps, national parks, state and national forests, and wild life refuge.
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disposable hero of hypocrisy
Fascinating kaik, thanks for posting... I've never believed in the world being only 7000 years old, and tbh I always thought we as witnesses believed in the big bang (but God started it and controlled it of course), but I've always believed mankind has only been here 6000 yrs as per wt theology. How convincing is the evidence for the dating of these people that lived 7 to 9000 years ago? Cos I've brought this up before and simply been TOLD the dating is out, it's an unreliable science..
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Make Lemonade
Kaik: You said, "I would say the best way to observe evolution is to go the nature. Touring swamps, national parks, state and national forests, and wild life refuge".
That is a tough assignment, but I accept. LOL. That is great advice. I really like that sort of thing. Slowly I have been gathering information on this subject. Your comments have been very helpful. I am in a much better position to narrow down books that will help me. I am very optimistic and excited to be exploring this subject. Being able to ask questions and then to receive so much information is wonderful.
Disp. Hero: You are like many witnesses I have talked to recently about this subject. On the whole I cannot find a clear united belief. This observation is supported by the fact that the Wt. publications are themselves making contradictory statements. You can go back to the Photo Drama and see a slide depicting 7 7,000 year creative days. The subject of the destruction of Jurusalem being destroyed in 607 is anchored to 539 BCE. 1975 is still 6,000 years from Adam's creation. No wonder you and I are sorting thru this maze of fuzzy logic. When the Wt. writters fail to identify teachings that have proved to be false, it only makes the search for answers more difficult. When you see this pattern being repeated in several areas, it helps your mind to be free to look deeper. You and I both are benefiting from all this information.
Cofty: Even though you are "over my head" in your understanding of this subject, I benefit from being introduced to thoughts that I can look into. Thanks
Donny: Have not finished viewing the videos. So far they are helpful.
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Make Lemonade
Notes:
Island Man: Cassiopeia project
Snare&racket: look for future comments
TD: hybrids
jgnat: videos pg. 1 and 2. Burgess shale creatures. What creative day?
Amelia Ashton: axolotls
Bohm: "animal name fossil record" google search. (find funny symbol on your keyboard)
Villagegirl: Hubble space photos. "none of anything I ever read in Science made me doubt the existence of God". Very cool. "Evolution male invention to be on top". Funny. Do not look into this further LOL
Heaven: Lewis Black. What can I say? Shake head with a smile on your face.
Gypsy Sam: PBS site
AnnOMaley: blind watchmaker
DuvanMuvan: "Beneficial mutations"
Metatron: Article on Lamarck
Redvip2000: Fossils show mutations...cause change...gradually over long periods of time"
Cofty: Look up alleles, gene pool, genotype, phenotype, speciation
check back to see if you missed anything. Research all the above and then pick out a book.
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punkofnice
Oddly enough I don't care.
I see no evidence for god and really feel too apathetic to try to analyse the start of life because death will sweep me away and it won't matter.
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kaik
Humans are around more than 7000 years. There was already 1-2 million of people around 10000 BC. There are graves left in Central Europe during the interglaciar periods which are known as a Mammoth hunters. The receding glaciers enabled spreading of population into Central Europe around 28000BC only to be pushed by returning glacier that melted away again around 10000 BC. The back to back glaciation left significant changes on the landscape, flora, and distribution of large animals like mommoths and saber-toothed cats are well documented.
