Supreme Court ruling- refusing to photo gay wedding is discrimination

by SadElder 112 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DJS
    DJS

    Alright bitcches, listen up. Professor DJS is going to give you an overview of how economics and ethics work together in modern day capitalistic countries. And for those of you who wonder, yes, I have studied both subjects at the Master’s level and taught, for several years, both subjects at the college level.

    Organizations and businesses are egoist, which means their decisions are typically based on self interest and that this is just and proper. Profit is not a dirty word, for example. Capitalism was built on this, and it works well – to a point.

    The U.S. government rests on the foundation of the Constitution (life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and general welfare for all), and operates typically in a utilitarian manner, (for the common good), which means that actions should be directed toward achieving the greatest happiness for the greatest number of individuals, or all of society, and would seek a balance of justice, freedom and fairness. The Constitution (which was a revolutionary document crafted by visionaries) is predicated on these concepts.

    Balancing these two views is the skill-set which makes great countries. Both are correct. One isn’t ‘right’ and one isn’t ‘wrong.’ Governments in capitalistic countries seek to create a thriving business environment for a strong economy while balancing the need for regulation (environment, social, etc.), justice and fairness for all. But governments, according to Adam Smith’s perfect model, shouldn’t directly support or subsidize businesses, unless those businesses impact the country’s ability to feed and protect itself. Otherwise, failing businesses should be allowed to fail. Textiles? Let them go to Mexico and replace textiles with semi-conductors. Banks? Let them fail and be absorbed by other banks. Chrysler? Let it go the way of the wind and see what type of Phoenix, more beautiful and efficient, is re-born in its place. The recent bailout of the banks deemed to be TBTF (too big to fail) was more political response than reality. Other banks would have absorbed the failed ones, and the economy would have rebounded stronger for it. But many weren’t able to accept the short-term political and economic impact.

    That’s the way Adam Smith envisioned a perfect economic model. He was right. But we humans – and our congressmen/women - don’t want the textile industry to go away if we depend on it for food or political power. We don’t want Chrysler to fail if we work for Chrysler or within the supply chain. And so on. The egoist, some of which rail against government controls, etc., seeks assistance from the universalist when they need it (bail me out, subsidize me, build a wall around me, keep those mean Chinese away, increase tariffs, etc.). As expected. The egoist will always think of themselves first and last.

    The egoist (businesses) also seeks assistance from the universalist (government) by lobbying for and demanding better roads, schools, airports, utilities, etc. to help its business thrive.

    So it comes off as more than a bit hypocritical for a business, a completely egoist enterprise, to think it can serve only who it wishes, especially when it has asked and gotten so much from the government – which has a competing interest of the common good for all – that has helped make their business thrive. And how many of you haters have or have had government backed school and/or home loans, lived in subsidized housing, were on food stamps, welfare, WIC, worker's comp, etc., etc.. To paint with such a broad brush about the mean ole violent government, especially when one has benefited from it so much, is hypocritical.

    Those businesses which discriminate against others, even or especially based on their own peronal relgious beliefs, are on very shaky ground when it comes to the U.S. egoist/universalist capitalistic environment and the U.S. Constitution. To try to hide behind religion is a sham, and the courts have consistently upheld the rights of all citizens when they faced such discrimination. Courts in state after state are ruling that discriminating against gays is unconstitutional and numerous anti-gay marriage laws have been overturned (many of these decisions are currently stayed based on appeal).

    Deal with it haters.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    1. If someone wants to hire a Muslim caterer to serve his wedding, does he have the right to demand that the Muslim caterer serve pork chops?

    2. If a black man owns a print shop and a KKK member walks in and asks him to print signs that say "Kill the N------s," does he have the right to refuse the business?

    Just wondering...

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Sole proprieters can be sued for civil rights violations. Some of the heavy duty federal ones require so many employees. There are state laws.

    Why does anyone care about gay people's marital status? It isn't interfering with your marriage. Outdated dictionaries must make way for laws.

  • DJS
    DJS

    If a company establishes a bonafide occupatonal qualification (BOQ) for a job, and this is clearly stated in the job description, it has the right to expect the task performed regardless. This is an HR question, and companies are protected by law. But the BOQ must be legit and the job description specific enough to address it. Some companies make allowances based on relgion, and that is their right. But the law protects companies based on the 2 things mentiioned.

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    So if for example you're a photographer, and you don't like watching two guys kissing all afternoon at a gay wedding, then under current law you have no choice but to lie about why you are refusing service, or you're in deep sh1t. That is equivalent to forcing one to do work they don't want to do. The current law definitely seems lacking.

  • DJS
    DJS

    I don't like watching fat people eat, but I deal with it.

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    So then, are you happy to be compelled to watch two men kissing for an afternoon just because you decided to go into the photography business?

  • DJS
    DJS

    Tootired,

    This discussion is heading for chimp-land. Good night. I don't attempt rational discussions with chimps. And I find fat people eating more disgusting than men kissing. But I would shoot both of their weddings.

  • Berengaria
    Berengaria

    That’s the way Adam Smith envisioned a perfect economic model. He was right. But we humans – and our congressmen/women - don’t want the textile industry to go away if we depend on it for food or political power. We don’t want Chrysler to fail if we work for Chrysler or within the supply chain. And so on. The egoist, some of which rail against government controls, etc., seeks assistance from the universalist when they need it (bail me out, subsidize me, build a wall around me, keep those mean Chinese away, increase tariffs, etc.). As expected. The egoist will always think of themselves first and last.

    The egoist (businesses) also seeks assistance from the universalist (government) by lobbying for and demanding better roads, schools, airports, utilities, etc. to help its business thrive.

    So it comes off as more than a bit hypocritical for a business, a completely egoist enterprise, to think it can serve only who it wishes, especially when it has asked and gotten so much from the government – which has a competing interest of the common good for all – that has helped make their business thrive. And how many of you haters have or have had government backed school and/or home loans, lived in subsidized housing, were on food stamps, welfare, WIC, worker's comp, etc., etc.. To paint with such a broad brush about the mean ole violent government, especially when one has benefited from it so much, is hypocritical.

    Those businesses which discriminate against others, even or especially based on their own peronal relgious beliefs, are on very shaky ground when it comes to the U.S. egoist/universalist capitalistic environment and the U.S. Constitution. To try to hide behind religion is a sham, and the courts have consistently upheld the rights of all citizens when they faced such discrimination. Courts in state after state are ruling that discriminating against gays is unconstitutional and numerous anti-gay marriage laws have been overturned (many of these decisions are currently stayed based on appeal).

  • tootired2care

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