When we die... (page 10)

pacloc

Again, wrong. I am not upset with you. However, the people YOU said you were addressing is a group I am part of. Therefore, you were addressing me. I get that it is uncomfortable for you to encounter the subject of your derision, but no one made you write that. You addressed me, so now explain how you know me well enough to declare for me what I believe.

You belong to a group now? A group of non belief? How do you know you share any of the same non belief as others in your so called group? You some how know that I am uncomfortable?

You simulaneously claim to know what spirit is and then pretend you just didn't claim to know what it is. You are saying nothing but meaninless circular platitudes. If you know, it's a simple question. What is spirit made of?

You are still in your Jdub mindset of logic. Very sad to see a human being stoop so low as to misrepresent somone else. "Oh you said you know what spirit is and then pretend to say you don't know what it is, your saying meningless circles." If you were not say angry with me and were trying to learn something, you would see that I never claimed to know everything about angels and demons except what I've learned through scripture and the Church. Does that mean I know nothing about them? Does that mean I know everything about them? Only a fool would reason the way you have, that either you know everything or nothing about a topic. I am sure you know everything about all things you ever speak of. Now as far as spirit goes, I do claim to know more about it than has been presented by other posters. I have said over and over and you do not want to hear it because your childish mind wants to know "what it's made of" in physical terms. I have told you that the Spirit is God, who is love, who is truth, who is holy. He does not exist in space or time, so you with your little mind will never know what God is made of.

You haven't said anything except to deny what you said. Try again. What is spirit made of?

I've denied something? Okay.

That's easy - Shit happens.

No god's, spirits, angels or demons. No resurrection or afterlife.

This life is amazing. It is not a rehearsal, it's the only one you or I will ever have.

Life's amazing? I could agree with that only to a certain extent because I've been blessed to live in a relatively nice place and time. But what about the children that are born suffering and die with illnesses? Or children born to starve to death? Or children not allowed to be born? As someone that does not believe in God, therefore does not believe in a standard of justice, do you believe that those kids are just as meaningful as trees and insects, and whatever happens by chance to them is just what it is? I know that everyone that turns from God, still creates their version of justice, but does it really mean anything, since it is completely up to you to create your own version?

I would hope that if it were up to you, people would not suffer unjustly. So how can we feel that way and the opposite happen? Random chance that things just developed the way they did with unjust suffering? Says who? So what do those suffering children get out of life? No happiness here or there. Too bad for them. I do agree that this life is not a rehearsal and that it is the only one you will ever have, since I believe in immortality. This is no time to treat life lightly.

God bless guys.

cofty

As someone that does not believe in God, therefore does not believe in a standard of justice,

Eh? Perhaps the most ill-informed statement in the history of the internet.

There should be a prize.

what about the children that are born suffering and die with illnesses? Or children born to starve to death?

As an ethical and logical problem that is for theists to answer. As a human problem it will only be solved by human effort.

I would hope that if it were up to you, people would not suffer unjustly.

That's correct. You and I are more moral and ethical than your deity.

So what do those suffering children get out of life? No happiness here or there.

That is the harsh truth of the matter. Your fairy stories of blessings in an afterlife are cold comfort.

villagegirl

Nobody has all the answers, not even cofty, who is convinced he does.

Advanced physics and the Hubble observations discovered that we can

only actually see and detect 4% of what actually exists in this universe and

the billions of other universes that exist. 96% of matter and energy are

producing known effects, but their source is unknown, its called dark matter, and

dark energy, since mere humans on this particular planet can't see it.

So earth biology is one, minute, tiny, tiny, piece of the puzzle.

We are all comprised of energy and light and exist in one of eleven dimensions.

Thats physics. Physics also shows we can exist in two places at once.

Its not as simple as cofty would have you believe.

pacloc

Eh? Perhaps the most ill-informed statement in the history of the internet.

There should be a prize.

In the history of the internet? So you do claim to have a standard of justice? Who's standard do you use? I guess you did not read in context that I was using the word "standard" as an unchangable, predetermined view of justice. That is why I said otherwise you create your own version. Once again angry athiests jumping to conclusions and misrepresenting what was said. Looks good for you guys.

As an ethical and logical problem that is for theists to answer. As a human problem it will only be solved by human effort.

I won a prize for what I said and you can say this?? Human effort will cure the world of disease and death? Sure thing. And you call theists crazy, you really believe humans will figure out how to stop death, let's start with cancer and down syndrome.

And the Church has answers for it, if you only care to listen. That is what I've been trying to say, with the judgment and resurrection, where justice will be done. You won't find answers in the JDub religion, because they have turned from the original teachings and have created their own version that contradicts logic and reason. I don't know how much you know about what the Church teaches on these matters, but I hope you are not mixing Jdub/protestant belief into what I am speaking about, that would just confuse the matter more.

jgnat

Eleven dimensions? Villagegirl, you also speak with supreme confidence where perhaps things aren't so black and white.

Agreed, as we push the limits of what we know we find so much more that we don't know. You have chosen to believe that God fills the gap of this unknowing, God and His son Jesus, as salvation for all mankind. You speak about this with as much confidence as your knowledge of the eleven dimensions. However, we can quantify our ignorance of dark matter through mathematics and observation. We know it must be there for our observations to make sense. We can do no such thing with God.

jgnat

pacloc, does belief in God equal belief in justice, and the converse, no belief in God, no justice? How so?

Apognophos

Human effort will cure the world of disease and death? Sure thing. And you call theists crazy, you really believe humans will figure out how to stop death, let's start with cancer and down syndrome.

Researchers are working on those. They've been working on them for some time now and are closer to solutions, as seen by the number of cancer treatments available today, and the knowledge of the precise genetic errors that lead to certain conditions like Down's syndrome. Meanwhile, a bunch of theists are sitting on their hands waiting for God to fix things. Is that really morally okay in your eyes? To just do nothing? How do you know when the end is coming or how much suffering can be avoided before then by scientific advancements?

pacloc

pacloc, does belief in God equal belief in justice, and the converse, no belief in God, no justice? How so?

In a single sentence, yes belief in God equals belief in justice and no belief in God equals no justice. This is in a perfect world though, which we are not in, so it gets a lot more complicated than that simple sentence. As Christians, we have no right or way of knowing someone's relationship with God. We only can speak of the "Standard" that God has given us through the law, prophets, and perfectly in Jesus. So if we develop a justice system that goes with God's justice system, yet are unsure of God's existence, I'm sure that a lot of that will be worked out at death. As Catholics, we are to hope that all mankind will be saved, we just try to teach that a surer way to reach Heaven is to follow as closely as possible the example of Christ and learn of the method of how God has saved us. So partial truth is better than nothing, but it too can get worse and lead to greater injustice. The reasons for conflict usually stem from pride and ignorance, which are both opposites of God, who is humble and pure truth/wisdom. So the more we try to immitate God, the less prideful and ignorant we should become, creating peace. But if it is up to each one of us to have our own system of justice, we will eventually fight till one prevails.

pacloc

Researchers are working on those. They've been working on them for some time now and are closer to solutions, as seen by the number of cancer treatments available today, and the knowledge of the precise genetic errors that lead to certain conditions like Down's syndrome. Meanwhile, a bunch of theists are sitting on their hands waiting for God to fix things. Is that really morally okay in your eyes? To just do nothing? How do you know when the end is coming or how much suffering can be avoided before then by scientific advancements?

Sitting on their hands? You are thinking of Jdubs, who are not Christian. Hospitals, Universities, and advances in science were started by the Church. Once again an atheist that cannot understand the word "and." You either do something practical, or only leave it up to God, Heaven forbid you do both.

End coming? Jdub thinking again. Please everyone, get educated in real Christianity before you attack it like this. We do not teach that you avoid responsibilities hoping the end will come next year. We might as well plan for the world to be around a few more thousand years, we don't know.

Apognophos

If you don't want Christians to sit on their hands, then why did you think it was "crazy" for humans to work on the problems of disease and death? Isn't it a waste of time?

When we die...

Share this