What is spirit, exactly? (page 38)

Viviane

I'll be happy to include it. Can you write it out specifically, I don't want to misunderstand.

Vidqun

Here's some repetition for emphasis. It's on p. 11 of the thread. You either missed it or ignored it.

Viviane, here's an attempt to answer your question. At least a partial answer:

Spirit, wind, breeze = forms of energy:

1) spirit, the energy involved, keeping the organism alive (where breathing plays an important part): Spirit is an old-fashioned name, describing the energy needed to sustain life. In scientific terms: ATP > ADP + energy

Wikipedia : Adenosine triphosphate ( ATP ) is a nucleoside triphosphate used in cells as a coenzyme. It is often called the "molecular unit of currency" of intracellular energy transfer. ATP transports chemical energy within cells for metabolism. It is one of the end products of photophosphorylation, cellular respiration, and fermentation and used by enzymes and structural proteins in many cellular processes, including biosynthetic reactions, motility, and cell division (see also Cellular respiration: glycolysis, oxydative phosphorylation, mitochondrial ATP synthase complex).

2) It can also refer to motivational energy of a person, whether internal or external, whether good or bad, e.g., a philanthropist donates money to worthwhile causes or a criminal has the inclination to rape, steal and harm others. The philanthropist is driven by a benevolent spirit (internally). The criminal is driven by a selfish, egotistical spirit (internally). One needs not blame God or the Devil here.

3 ) It can refer to an inanimate force, e.g., breeze, wind. No explanation needed.

4) It can also refer to independent creatures, e.g., angels and demons.

5) It can refer to the substance of God and that which he uses to accomplish his will.

For 4) & 5) one needs a bit of imagination. (I am a great fan of SF, and have an overactive imagination, so that helps.) If physical (single cell or multicellular) organisms can exist, can one rule out that organisms, made out of energy, can exist? What would keep the energy concentrated? I don’t know. Our understanding of natural phenomena is limited. But that does not rule out the possibility that these cannot exist.

An example, “ball lightning,” comes to mind. One of the Czars saw it. People were skeptical of it until scientists, flying from New York to Washington , witnessed a blazing orb drifting down the aisle and disappear through the back of the plane. From then on research began to explain the phenomenon. So unable to explain something, doesn’t mean it doesn’t or cannot exist.

Viviane

1) Life force is on the list

2) Human motivation is on the list

3) That's a metaphor, already covered

4) Refering to them is just repeating the question. What is this spirit stuff that makes up anges and demons comprised of IS a big part of the question.

5) See #4, same answer.

As far as speculation goes, not ruling out what spirit could be made of doesn't get us us closer to an answer. I could speculate that we can't rule out that spirit is a combination of a teapot made from unicorn cement and fossilized dragon fire, but that gets us no closer to an answer. The list obiously cannot contain all of the things we can think of it could be made of.

I have not once suggested it doesn't exist, I have merely persistently asked that, if it does exist, what comprises it.

Vidqun

Teapot and fossilized dragon fire? Seems like you do have some imagination after all. Regarding matter, they have detected most particles that make up matter, even those that were only predicted by their mathematical equations. But then that would not be enough to keep things together, so they predict the existence of something they call "dark matter" and "dark energy." This is so prevalent that they hope to prove its existence in a California goldmine, where these "particles" would collide with concentrated helium, if I remember correctly.

The Universe is full of matter and the attractive force of gravity pulls all matter together. Then came 1998 and the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) observations of very distant supernovae that showed that, a long time ago, the Universe was actually expanding more slowly than it is today. So the expansion of the Universe has not been slowing due to gravity, as everyone thought, it has been accelerating. No one expected this, no one knew how to explain it. But something was causing it.

Eventually theorists came up with three sorts of explanations. Maybe it was a result of a long-discarded version of Einstein's theory of gravity, one that contained what was called a "cosmological constant." Maybe there was some strange kind of energy-fluid that filled space. Maybe there is something wrong with Einstein's theory of gravity and a new theory could include some kind of field that creates this cosmic acceleration. Theorists still don't know what the correct explanation is, but they have given the solution a name. It is called dark energy.

What is dark energy? More is unknown than is known. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the Universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery. It turns out that roughly 68% of the Universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 27%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the Universe. Come to think of it, maybe it shouldn't be called "normal" matter at all, since it is such a small fraction of the Universe. From the NASA Science website.

I cannot say with certainty what God, or the angels/demons are made of, but as above demostrates, there's a lot we do not know. So don't discard a form of energy as an option just yet.

Viviane

Thank for your that quick primer on cosmology. It's a fascinating subject. Please do start a thread on it, it's one of my favorite subjects.

A "form of energy" as a speculative answer, of course, isn't ruled out, any more than unicorn cement and fossilized dragon fire teapots are. The problem is that there are so many definitions, even as seen on this limited sample size of a thread, how would we even know what to call spirit? Anything that matches any definition ever thrown out?

Jon Preston

Yes vid, remember all those things we done know are quite a ways away, yes? Yet spirit, God, angels, demons are right here interacting with us and/or watching over us....yet theres zero proof of any of it...no way of measuring their frequency, should they be on some different plane of existence....

so if spirits in us and is its own entity or has its own set of constructs......

caliber

I have not once suggested that it doesn't exist, I have merely persistently asked , if it does exist , what comprises it ~~ Viviane

Ok, but are you "suggesting " that you have an inner sincere desire to change into believing in the existence of spirit

should someone happen upon an acceptable definition ?

Would you not agree that your negative response to many idea's presented would "suggest " that you do not wish for there to be an acceptable answer ?

Why is it do you think so many here , by their comments , seem to feel like this thread is a hostile enviroment ?

Do you feel you as "O Poster" have set a friendly tone for others to follow ?

As a child I quickly learned that if I said please and thank you and was very pleasant I got more candy

Viviane

Ok, but are you "suggesting " that you have an inner sincere desire to change into believing in the existence of spirit should someone happen an acceptable definition ?

No.

Would you not agree that your negative response to many idea's presented would "suggest " that you do not wish for there to be an acceptable answer ?

Of course not. That would be like saying that if I order salad for dinner and get 20 things that weren't salad I somehow didn't want there to be a salad.

caliber

So you are more like an irate customer who is justified because no one can get your order right ?

It isn't you ... it's all the stupid people that upsets you

Viviane

So you are more like an irate customer who is justified because no one can get your order right ?

It isn't you ... it's all the stupid people that upsets you

Oh dear, don't be silly and make things up. No one said any of that. You're still trying to make this about me by trying to ascribe negative things to me. That's been tried and failed.

Can you tell me what spirit is comprised of?

What is spirit, exactly?

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