My Elderette is attempting to change the subject again

by Faithful Witness 31 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    We were in the middle of discussing their use of God's personal name, and Miss K was not able to find one place in the Bible, where Jesus actually said the name out loud (that wasn't a quote from the OT).

    We had started out by talking about Jesus being "the way, the truth and the life." Then she stated that one of the purposes of Jesus' coming to earth, was "to make God's name known." She showed me several verses to try to prove that, yet not one where it was recorded that he ever actually called him by a personal name. There was not one verse, where Jesus instructed them to call God by a personal name. If he had done that, maybe he could have told us how to pronounce it properly... ??

    She admitted that they were mispronouncing it, but then went on to say that Jesus was a mispronunciation also... "So should we remove Jesus' name from the Bible also?" (I suggested we just throw the whole thing out the window, as she had used a similar reasoning to defend the NWT as the true translation, over the KJV... "Is that version of the Bible accurate???") It seems that her way of desperately trying to prove that what she says is true, is to deflect the question and question what someone else says. That is not very convincing (this time... been there already). "Question all religious teachings... look, they are false!" (but don't you dare question ours... we have the only TRUTH!)

    Then we began reading the appendix to their new NWT, where it explains why they decided to add Jehovah to the Greek scriptures.

    Some claims that she made last week:

    • Because of JW's, the churches of today are now aware of God's name. They are using it more, and apparently she has seen it up on the wall at one church. (She went for a wedding or funeral, and saw a mural with the different names for God).
    • Jesus is reigning on his heavenly throne NOW, but will eventually be giving the authority back to his father. (Therefore, we need to keep Jehovah above Jesus).
    • (the obvious and overused JW reasoning) If you want to know someone, you need to know their name! (Good grief, really? What will happen if I start calling my dad by his first name? Will I feel closer to him?)

    We were interrupted by a phone call from my husband, that he was ready to be picked up from work.

    She really wanted me to agree to use the Bible Teach book again. I told her I have already studied that whole book, but she thinks she can help me see it from a new perspective. I told her I would think about it, and was going to think about whether I was even going to continue studying with her. (I told her about a friend who had warned me about letting "heretics" into my home).

    ----- fast forward ----- I skipped a week, and my mom came for a visit instead. Miss K sent me a text, telling me she was "thinking of me." -----

    I replied on Friday, and told her we could meet this week Friday. It took her a couple of days, but she just sent me a text yesterday (Tuesday). She is planning to come this week, and has suggested that we discuss Matthew 13:24-30 (the parable of the wheat and the weeds). Another leap!

    Not sure what thought process has made her jump from the "fact" that Jesus told his disciples to make God's name known to every corner of the earth, to this particular parable. I have studied that WT article (July 15, 2013). I even attended that meeting with my husband, so we could see how people actually reacted when they were told that their beliefs had changed. Even though I am interested in this story, and how the JW's have interpreted it incorrectly (again), I am not really willing to move on to the next subject until we finish what we were just talking about.

    I think she just wants to keep me guessing, and begin another round of her BIBLE RACE game. I'm on to that one, and I'm not going to waste 30 minutes hopping around between unrelated verses she has cherry-picked ahead of time. She begins each session with small talk, and then launches into her presentation. We go from verse to verse to verse, until she finally stops and asks me a question.

    Since I never quite know what point she is driving at, it makes me look ignorant, and gives her an excuse to start the "Miss K Show," where she begins a long explanation of some topic of her choice. I've learned that I must interrupt this part, as her explanation is full of holes. We talk about those holes, and then she ends with, "Well, I just know this is the truth. I wouldn't be here, if I wasn't convinced of that."

    This is a very poor demonstration of how you should "study" the Bible!

    It has become apparent that this is her way of trying to "prove" that JW's get their beliefs from the bible.

    Instead, she is revealing her method of "teaching" as a control and manipulation tactic.

    She wants to appear as though her "knowledge" is superior to mine, because she has listed a bunch of verses on a piece of paper, and has now successfully made me follow her on her little adventure of skipping through the truth. NO MORE Bible races!

    I am going to text her back, and let her know that I am willing to take another look at the Bible Teach book. At least I will know what she is planning to present next, and can be prepared with my own questions ahead of time.

    I'm going to use some ideas from Wilbur Lingle's commentary. https://archive.org/details/ResponseToWhatDoesTheBibleReallyTeach

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Along with many of the suggestions I have found here on JWN. I really appreciate all the insight. This forum is awesome!

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    Interesting discussions you're having! Thanks for posting them.

    BTW, this:

    Miss K sent me a text, telling me she was "thinking of me."

    will undoubtedly be marked down in the "Return Visits" column of her FS report.

    She probably didn't even have to leave bed for that one!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    So she is coming back for more, eh?

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    • Because of JW's, the churches of today are now aware of God's name. They are using it more, and apparently she has seen it up on the wall at one church. (She went for a wedding or funeral, and saw a mural with the different names for God).

    Unless she has actually been to many church services to compare over the years (which she isn't allowed to do), then she is making this up. How would she know the churches are using the trademark name for the watchtower's god 'more'?

    • Jesus is reigning on his heavenly throne NOW, but will eventually be giving the authority back to his father. (Therefore, we need to keep Jehovah above Jesus).

    Faulty foundation leading to faulty conclusion.

    • (the obvious and overused JW reasoning) If you want to know someone, you need to know their name! (Good grief, really? What will happen if I start calling my dad by his first name? Will I feel closer to him?)

    You are correct about using your father's first name.

    She really wanted me to agree to use the Bible Teach book again.

    This will be her comfort zone, her sheild. Once you start on that book any questions you have will be shelved on the basis the book will answer it later. Of course it doesn't but by then the brainwashing (thought reform caused by logical fallacies and propaganda), is complete and you will have no brain left to think.....other than....'I love big brother!'

    I dare you to ask her if she'd still call on you if you made a deal for her not to count any 'time(tm)', 'return visits(tm)' or anything else for that matter.....just call out of 'love(tm)'........would she still call on you?

    She may say 'yes' and secretly count time(tm) etc still under 'theocratic warfare(tm)'....where an JW can lie to a non JW...see the quote below and make of it what you will:-

    Theocratic Warfare Strategy = ***w07 2/1 p.6***

    Every lie is an untruth, but not every untruth is a lie. Why not? A dictionary defines a lie as “an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive.” Yes, lying includes the intention to deceive someone. Hence, to speak an untruth unwittingly—such as giving someone incorrect facts or figures by mistake—is not the same as to tell a lie.

    Moreover, we need to consider whether the person asking for information is entitled to a comprehensive answer. For instance, suppose Manfred had been asked the same questions by an executive of another company. Would Manfred have been obliged to tell him everything? Not really. Since that executive had no right to such information, Manfred would have had no obligation to provide it. Of course, even in this case, it would have been wrong for him to tell a lie.

    If she lies to you then what lies must the watchtower(r) be telling for the same reason?

    Not saying she would but.....hmmmmmmmmmmm!

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Please be careful, i know people who studied (argued) for several years before becoming JWs themselves, they did the study stuff for shits and giggles and to try and make a point and still ended up as baptized cult drones themselves.

    Unless you really are on top of the mind control and cult angles then you might crumble. Just sayin'

  • new hope and happiness
    new hope and happiness

    Faithful Witness...she is indoctrinated and forced within to conform, and she wont rebel. She will have no protest against the rules set by the society. She follows all the rules.

    And the social order allows this " bible study" and in my opinion its water off a duck..thats a " Elderette" for you.

    Elderette was a new word to me...i feel sorry if she has sufferd stress upon conformity, and you " faithful witness" are giving new ideas which are putting her in opposition to the demands her" husband" the " organisaton" has put pn her.

    Anyway i think she comes back because your personalities attrack..and i think its to late to change this lady.

  • ruderedhead
    ruderedhead

    Faithful, bless your sweet heart for trying, but you're wasting your time and energy with this woman. It appears from your posts that she is not listening to what you are saying, and has her own agenda that she is going to stick to. She is obviously fully immersed in this cult and brainwashed. I hope you don't get too frustrated if you want to keep going with her. May I ask how long you're willing to keep trying to wake her up?

    All the best to you. Who knows, amybe you actually do have her thinking.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Your Elderette is clearly on JW autopilot every time she visits, and regardless of what she tells you, you are nothing more to her than a good source of time-counting for her monthly report!

    Stop the study and invite her for a social visit - see how she responds.

  • new hope and happiness
    new hope and happiness

    L.O.L ...the searcher.

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