I always ask the following in my discussions with Witnesses. " As you're willing to sacrifice not only your life but the lives of your children in the name of this religion, what concrete proof do you have that this is the one true religion, led by Christ & approved by God himself?" Expect everything but concrete proof.
My Elderette is attempting to change the subject again
by Faithful Witness 31 Replies latest watchtower bible
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DATA-DOG
I hope you are combatting these sessions with some trips to Jwfacts.com. Even though you know TTATT, you are experiencing very subtle and negative energies dealing with these ladies. Call it what you will, bad juju, negative vibes, whatever..it's real. Why do you think so many faders get physically ill and experience severe anxiety from hearing JW propaganda?? There is a very real danger.
Even if you don't believe in it, do some kind of meditation to counteract what you are experiencing. I HAVE to go to the meetings for now, and I KNOW what it does to me, but I take precautions and take counteractive measures. For instance, I have felt great all week. WHY? Well the CO is gone and our meetings were switched around. I had all the stressful CO meetings and then another meeting was changed to Monday night! So all that negativity was building. Then I "had" to work late and skipped the Monday night meeting.
So ZERO meetings until Sunday for me, and I feel great. I am skipping Saturday service as usual. Yay, Me!!!! One day is more than enough. I am getting pretty good at void meditation and ignoring all the hate-speech and propaganda, but it still affects me mentally and emotionally. Even when people get out, they can have PTSD for years, maybe even for the rest of their lives. That's how powerful the negativity is.
You are willingly subjecting yourself to these sessions. Be careful.
DD
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dabster
I'm trying to understand the warnings. In fact I suppose I do. It's wise to be cautious. But FW does have her wits about her. Her not missing the ducking and weaving, nimble sidestepping and the arguments riddled with holes, along with the engaging way she writes are what make her updates so readable. She doesn't strike me as naïve at all. She will be even better equipped as she follows Wilbur Lingle's guide.
I just saw DD's post. I need to add to what I just said. That's right, we shouldn't ignore the spiritual dimension. This is a spiritual counterfeit, not simply mind control, so we need to do what we're told in Ephesians 6:10ff. to do.
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ShempLives
FW, Maybe you could ask Elderette how she feels about male headship? She must have seen some inept elders, and knows she could do better than some of the men in the congregation. Not all men are cut out for leadership or public speaking.
Ask her how she feels about being subordinate to a baptized brother who's less experienced--maybe just out of his teens. Or ask her if she minds covering her head if she has to lead a study or Field service group.
Just a thought. Looking forward to the next installment.
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Faithful Witness
I am taking all of your warnings very seriously. I know that this is war, and that Miss K does NOT come in peace. I will not be overconfident in dealing with Miss K and her JW wiles.
She has left out an important step in the process, well actually TWO steps, and I don't think she knows that I have noticed:
- She never prays with me, and has not yet talked about prayer at all.
- She is not love-bombing... she is not even like-bombing. She has not bothered to learn the names of my children yet, even though they greet her every time she visits. I find this slightly out of the ordinary, since I know the names of her grandchildren, and ask about them each time. All of our small talk is about her and her family. (This is fine with me! I would prefer to keep it academic. I have no intention of investing my emotions in a conditional friendship. She is more of a psychology experiment).
- (She is also a very poor listener, and only listens in order to pick up cues to use to change subjects or turn questions back at me, in an attempt to make me look ignorant or unprepared).
To be honest, there is a small voice that keeps telling me that she might actually be reading these posts! HAHA... I have no evidence of course, but just a nervous feeling every time I relay my experiences with her. She would recognize the dog, as both she and Miss W cower in fear at our barking German Shepherd.
I'm learning a lot about JW behavior and thought from talking with her. She has come right out and admitted that "you are different," and 'YOU know what we believe," and "Your situation is different than most... you have family in the organization... you are smart..." etc. I guess that might be her way of giving me attention and love, but it never sounds like sincere praise or recognition... more like fear or suspicion. During each of our last 2 sessions, I found a nerve and did manage to ruffle her feathers quite a bit.
I've learned what behavior and statements she will say, to stop herself from thinking, and try to get me to stop along with her. She is a very interesting character, and I have to admit that I love drama and human emotions. As I continue talking with her, I learn so much about how her thought process works.
Miss K has no intention of actually listening to anything I have to say, and she really does not care about my sincere questions. I'm not kidding myself here... I realize I do NOT have the power to reach her through that thick wall the Watchtower has built in her mind. She does not have ears to hear, or eyes to see the truth about her "Truth."
The questions and topics we discuss, can hopefully be relayed to my parents. My father will be delighted, when I go to him and start asking him "Bible" quesions, and telling him what Miss K said. Since he is a man, he is above her, right?? (hahaha)... I know he relies heavily on that little brown "Reasoning" book for his answers. Miss K goes beyond that, so I can help him possibly see that thought beyond the printed material is going to be essential, if he wants to be a "good Jehovah's Witness."
My dad has made the statement 3 times (in one visit to my house, when he was talking about the new JW app), "I don't know... they are smarter than me!" Now that I am "back" as a bible student, I will have more leeway again in talking to him about these important issues. It will be interesting to see how this approach works with him.
I am looking forward (with some trepidation) to my meeting with Miss K today, as it always makes for interesting conversation with my husband. My children are not sitting at the table with us (BORRRRING!), but they do see and are fully aware of what is happening. There is no way they will ever fall for the WT bull... We will laugh and talk about the JW statements together. My 7 year old daughter and 6 year old son, are both highly intelligent and have developed some good critical thinking skills.
I look forward to telling Miss K that I will be playing the part of the "kindergartener" during this bible study. I have so many questions, beyond what that little book tells me I'm supposed to ask...
HAVE you ever noticed the way children ask questions? Many start asking as soon as they learn to speak. With wide, eager eyes, they look up at you and ask such things as: Why is the sky blue? What are the stars made of? Who taught the birds to sing? You may try hard to answer, but it is not always easy. Even your best answer may lead to yet another question: Why?
2 Children are not the only ones who ask questions. As we grow up, we keep asking. We do this in order to find our way, to learn of dangers that we need to avoid, or to satisfy our curiosity. But many people seem to stop asking questions, especially the most important ones. At least, they stop searching for the answers.
3. Why do many stop trying to find answers to the questions that matter most?
3 Think about the question on the cover of this book, the questions raised in the preface, or those at the beginning of this chapter. These are some of the most important questions you can ask. Yet, many people have given up trying to find the answers. Why? Does the Bible have the answers? Some feel that its answers are too hard to understand. Others worry that asking questions could lead to shame or embarrassment. And some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers. What about you?
4, 5. What are some of the most important questions we can ask in life, and why should we seek the answers?
4 Very likely you are interested in getting answers to life’s big questions. No doubt you sometimes wonder: ‘What is the purpose of life? Is this life all there is? What is God really like?’ It is good to ask such questions, and it is important that you do not give up until you find satisfying, reliable answers. The famous teacher Jesus Christ said: “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you.”—Matthew 7:7.
5 If you “keep on seeking” for answers to the important questions, you will find that the search can be very rewarding. (Proverbs 2:1-5) Despite what other people may have told you, there are answers, and you can find them—in the Bible. The answers are not too hard to understand. Better yet, they bring hope and joy. And they can help you to live a satisfying life right now. To begin, let us consider a question that has troubled many people.
The question that is really plaguing me most today...
WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES STOP ASKING QUESTIONS? Why did you stop asking questions?
Paragraph 5 says you can find the answers in the Bible. What do we need this book for?
Who wrote this book? How do we know it is true?
Was it written by religious leaders? Who do we get our answers from? What do they mean in paragraph 3? Are we supposed to rely on religious leaders, or the Bible?
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punkofnice
Miss K has no intention of actually listening to anything I have to say
Says it all! She only wants to use you to count time as we said before.
If she is reading this then all well and good. It shows she's waking up.
WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES STOP ASKING QUESTIONS? Why did you stop asking questions?
Be prepared on this...........You'll be told JWs do not fit this criteria and that they DO ask questions and that's how they know it's the truth(r).
You couldn't make it up. Mind you the WBT$ has!
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berrygerry
One question I would like answered, as a parent, " How bad were your children when you decided to stop loving them?"
"How bad were they, then, that you decided that they should be executed?"
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jookbeard
point 1) prayer, you are very much in the embryo stage of the timetable she has set for you in her mind, the fact that there is a feeling of informailty about these sessions is why she has not prayed, if you agree to a proper study of the Teach book ( thats why she keeps pushing it) then the air of informality will change and she will probably open and close the session in prayer.
point 2) she has absolutely zero interest in you, your kids, your husband or how generally things are with you, she is there soley to recruit and try to place books with you thats why she keeps on asking you to take a study of the Teach book
point 3) poor listener, nothing out of the ordinary there, she is a hard core Dub with decades of experience is debating with a vast array of members of society she is only interested in forcing through her points , thats why its now a good time to stop these sessions , her listening wont improve LOL!
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InChristAlone
Marked
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blondie
zero interest = when my husband studied with an elder, the elder was his best friend. My husband got baptized and it was like he didn't exist.
jws are taught to be careful about making friends with non-jws even when they are studying, keep it spiritual but not social. As the student" approches baptism that may change (see zero interest above).