End shunning or lose tax free status (page 2)

Old Goat

This won't happen, especially in the United States. Organizations and individuals have the right of association. That right includes the right to not associate.

There are x-witnesses with whom I would not assocaite. I treasure my right to choose my associates. Don't you?

What many here don't like is suffering a consequence for behavior. As i read these posts, the issue for many isn't that they believe contrary doctrine or reject on moral grounds Watchtower practice. The Watchtower religion is a morally high expectation sect. You chose a contrary course and hate the consequences. But no one is obilgated to associate with you. Some of us need to stop whining.

For those of you who are Americans, do you believe in our system of rights and obligations? It seems not. I'm not sure what you do believe. You want to force your association on those who don't accept your behvaior or current belief. Why would you do that? Why would you turn to courts or legislation to force someone to talk to you?

Some who post here misrepresent their 'enlightenment.' They found watchtower teaching and practice defective after they abandoned the group's behavior standards. Some of those who post here make youtube videos that are less than factual. You hurt yourself. No informed witness will take you seriously. I don't take you seriously, and I have serious issues with the Watchtower.

Frankly, some of us need to mature. And some of us who live in the United States need to appreciate our country's system of rights, one of which is the right to choose associates. You weren't "chosen" and you whine. Stop it.

galaxie

Old goat ...Go kiss the flag!!!

Caedes

What many here don't like is suffering a consequence for behavior. As i read these posts, the issue for many isn't that they believe contrary doctrine or reject on moral grounds Watchtower practice. The Watchtower religion is a morally high expectation sect. You chose a contrary course and hate the consequences. But no one is obilgated to associate with you. Some of us need to stop whining.

Some of us need to stop jumping to conclusions, a lot of people were born-in and had little choice in their baptism due to age or excessive pressure to conform. Certainly not every person who has been shunned is in that position due to their conduct, there are lots of stories on this forum alone of people who left for reasons other than because they didn't wish to follow "behaviour standards"

Old goat, you should get off your high horse and stop defending such a hypocritical organisation. As has been pointed out the reason for shunning is because it is a cult and they cant afford to have memebers being exposed to the perfectly normal lives that the majority of so called apostates live.

Old Goat

My "high horse" is the rights Americans enjoy. Cult or not, they have the right of association. That right persists even if you were "born in." You would force people who don't like you to speak? Why? Some sort of self-vindication? Do you really need to vindicate yourself?

The reason why they shun is irrelevant. They have the right to do it. You don't have the right to force your association on anyone.

I can't speak to how normal the lives of those who read this board are. It is not normal to insist that people who reject you or your behavior must speak to you. Insisting that those who do not approve of us speak to us is aberrant behavior.

galaxie

I am currently shunned by my father, I am not dfd I simply

faded many years ogo . I cannot visit my infirm mother who has been diag' with dementia although she still recognises me as her son and always welcomed my visits and company as it SHOULD be.

my father has chosen to shun my sister who is an active jw because she associates with me as it SHOULD be.

My brother (an elder) also disagrees with my father and has tried in vain to show him his reasoning is wrong this has had no change in his attitude.

Now the elders are involved they want to have a 'chat ' with both my father and my sister.

they have already talked with my father and information was imparted to my sister that my father told them I was dfd!!?

My brother the elder (who lives in another country ) has had to contact the elders in my fathers cong' to inform them I was never dfd.

so things are not just as black and white as some may think, and of course this whole unnecessary and hurtful practice causes deep pain to all involved.

all due to this hypocritical bunch of .......they can stick their religious freedoms and rights if this is what it causes where the sun don't shine.

Teary Oberon

Taxes should never be used to coerce compliance with the preferred moral or political idealology of the State. You would essentially be granting the State the arbitrary power to dictate who we should associate with, on pain of fine or taxes.

I find that far more terrifying than what the Witnesses do now, because the Witnesses do not use guns to enforce their decisions, unlike the State.

bafh

I've been wondering for a long time why the organization is not more forthright. And now I see this quote below. Explains everything. And explains why they probably never will be. They do not consider the congregation entitled to a comprehensive answer. Another reason why I will likely never return.

Theocratic Warfare Strategy = ***w07 2/1 p.6***

Every lie is an untruth, but not every untruth is a lie. Why not? A dictionary defines a lie as “an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive.” Yes, lying includes the intention to deceive someone. Hence, to speak an untruth unwittingly—such as giving someone incorrect facts or figures by mistake—is not the same as to tell a lie.

Moreover, we need to consider whether the person asking for information is entitled to a comprehensive answer.For instance, suppose Manfred had been asked the same questions by an executive of another company. Would Manfred have been obliged to tell him everything? Not really. Since that executive had no right to such information, Manfred would have had no obligation to provide it. Of course, even in this case, it would have been wrong for him to tell a lie.

Apognophos

That theocratic warfare concept is an old one. It's been passed down as a life principle in my Witness family from generation to generation. I wonder where their scriptural support comes from for that teaching.

Anyway, if they had to choose, the Society would definitely drop the shunning. It wouldn't be opening the floodgates as much as you guys think. A lot of the reason people stay in is not shunning per se, or lack of information per se. It's a fear of shame (from the informal disapproval of the congregation) and a fear of contrary information due to thought control.

Teary Oberon

"I've been wondering for a long time why the organization is not more forthright. And now I see this quote below. Explains everything."

If I may ask a very simple question: what part of that quote don't you agree with? Can you highlight any specific portion and explain why it is incorrect?

Just curious.

Quarterback

I'm confused....Is the gov banning the JW's for their shunning? Where is this happening?

End shunning or lose tax free status

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