"Why do the vast majority insist their stories are actually true and to doubt it is a vice?" The power of their longings is all tied up with God/Christ/faith (since we're pretty sure Superman, Santa, etc., isn't real) and one iota of hope gets us through the night - that's a biggee. It's pure pain to deal with any evidence to the contrary - I don't think the word 'courage' is enough because of our search for evidence/faith of God. Perhaps knowledge/education of science, lessens the blow.
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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DJS
Homey,
I'm sometimes a sarcastic wise ass. Abe deserves exactly what he gets. Anger hasn't anything to do with it. Abe pops in from time to time to preach Jesus to all of us heathens, typically using the same Jesus lovin' mantra. Easy target. Anyone else using the same tactic will get the same response.
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jgnat
So why do the vast majority of religious people insist that their stories are actually true and that to doubt it is a vice? – cofty
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
I don't actually think that stories which are entertaining have much to do with religion. – Apognophos
First of all, I was using an analogy that we find value in fiction, and derive direct pleasure from the retelling of re-occurring themes. It is not harmful to do so, and it is not a vice.
I suspect the pleasure in gathering in worship, in singing familiar songs and hearing the familiar stories, is pretty basic to our nature. This you have also alluded to.
Is it not a compelling story that a God came to earth to sacrifice his very life in love, to save humanity?
I was not drawn to Christianity from a fear of death. I do think it is a strong theme amongst Witnesses though.
When I finally joined this thread (I think it was page four), I also challenged, cofty, the effectiveness of directly confronting people who have a firmly held erroneous belief.
All it does is reinforce their former position, as contrary as that sounds. We end up with a little tribe of shrieking believers, waving their shiny swords and tiny threats, sounding ever more delusional by the second. So if clarity and sanity is the goal, why do you go for the jugular?
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Searril
Dogma; is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology, nationalism or belief system,
and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm,
or the ideology itself. The term can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers
or philosophical schools, public decrees, religion, or issued decisions of political authorities.
- source the Dictionary
Cofty you have your own Dogma. You seek to impose it on others.
You judge others way of seeing the world, or belief systems or spiritual
ideas, or anything you think is connected to any kind of thinking,
other than your own narrow point of view. If its not atheism then
you reject it, I continue to wonder why you even come here at all.
This is an ex-JW forum for people trying to free themselves from
rigid and unbending and male dominated, authority based on the idea
that God has some central authority called the governing body.
Freedom - may not lie in simply telling them there is no God,
based on your own dogma that you insist this is the only acceptable
course, you don't like the idea of God and believe you can prove he does
not exist, which you cannot. How about just freedom and individuality,
aside from any organization or doctrines. I believe in freedom, and I
also believe in spiritual freedom for all.
Yep.
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KateWild
All it does is reinforce their former position, as contrary as that sounds. We end up with a little tribe of shrieking believers, waving their shiny swords and tiny threats, sounding ever more delusional by the second. So if clarity and sanity is the goal, why do you go for the jugular?- jgnat
You make a good point, sometimes going for the jugular works. I was very vulnerable when I first posted over 3700 posts ago. Cofty and tammy had good exchanges that made me think clearer. Cofty really cares about JWs leaving WT and joining another harmful religious group because he feels he wasted 9 years doing just that and wants to protect others.
I don't see bad in all religions and I still believe in God. So not all believers end up digging their heals in and spouting nonsense. There is a balance on the board and as long as that remains JWs when they leave will find their own path that suits them, most are pretty easy to deprogram to the point of being rational whether they believe in God or not IMO.
Kate xx
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new hope and happiness
So Cofty The topic is " Escaping indoctrination- faith isnt a virtue"
Now lets take the average man. Shall we call him Mike. In winter life i wear ear muffs, use an umbrella ( in case of rain) wear Asbestos y- fronts, cosy mittens, and wellies. In summer i wear a comfy pullover, tasteful troucers, sunglasses. In the evening a wig, aftershave, WIG, and condoms in case i get lucky....and if i am unluck i have my boxing gloves.
I mean my point is " Escaping indoctintion..." is how we come to live at " No fixed abode". And i think thats where " faith" and " acceptance" meet.
I am now escaping faith and indoctrination, and have purchased a violin and can be found basking in " Green Lane" underground.
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LV101
KateWild - you are right on about Cofty's trying to help/educate ex-witnesses from jumping into another "harmful religious group." I've come so close to visiting a couple of different churches and now I'm apprehensive about all of them. Cofty is tenacious and some of us need protection - it's a serious matter. I appreciate others advice here, also.
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new hope and happiness
LV agee totally but as a client of sombody leaving a religion, id say " be aware of indocrination".
I mean charges may not be pressed, but i think it prudent to say finding a religion as a disaster doesnt make the new role in life any less of a indoctrinated disaster....
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mrhhome
KateWild,
There is a balance on the board and as long as that remains JWs when they leave will find their own path that suits them
Well said. I agree absolutely.
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cofty
Is it not a compelling story that a God came to earth to sacrifice his very life in love, to save humanity? - Jgant
Personally I think vicarious human blood sacrifice is a repulsive notion.
We end up with a little tribe of shrieking believers, waving their shiny swords and tiny threats, sounding ever more delusional by the second. So if clarity and sanity is the goal, why do you go for the jugular?
The shrieking, threatening, insulting fundies add a great deal of clarity to debate in their own unique way.
Searril - I can't thank you enough for your thoughtful and profound contribution.