There is no such thing as sin. Its all just ancient people trying make sense of their world. If we are sinners then what do you call an omnipotent being that just watches everyone die??
I was baptized at 16, because it was the right thing to do.
DD
A Good Question To Ask JW to Get Them To Think
by sarahsmile 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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NewYork44M
I am not convinced that it is my role to try to convice jws that their way is in error. If I prove that they are wrong, then what?
You may consider my perspective selfish; you are correct, it is. I don't want the responsibility of the rest of their live.
Proving that the jw religion is wrong not difficult, but it is only the first step in a very long, hard, and complex process. I am still trying to sort out my life, I don't want the responsibility of another's live.
I got my own stkinin problem - I really don't want someone else's problems.
So if they think they have the truth - god bless them...
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NewYork44M
BTW, I was 15 when I was baptized into this realestate development corporation, I am now 57.
I remember thinking that the whole baptism process was pretty dumb. I really could never get to the point of saying a prayer that dedicated my life to "j."
In retrospect, this should have been a clue that this was not for me, but I was not that enlightened to the world.
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sarahsmile
DD another 16 year old. Right thing to do. Yeah that was a lot of pressure on a 16 year old. Everything was wrapped around it including marriage vows! You feeling better today! Lol.
Hey NewYork, I hear you because I never did any prayers to dedicate my life either! Nice age 57 :-) I think there were a bunch of clues!
Nervous and not really wanting to do it was mine! I did not stand up with the very large group. Goodnss there is no way I feel responsible for waking up JWs especially relatives that are still in. Life is too short and at my age it is going by faster.
Sad that most of us were just teenagers probably wanting to please others!
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designs
Its the arc of self discovery and self awareness. The innocense of youth gets betrayed and used by older people.
Old guys send young men off to War. Knorr would have never gone to a Labor Camp over the Draft but he was arrogant enough to send us. He used us as his shield and did a victory dance.
Religious belief is such a powerful thing in peoples lives. It can defy all logic and evidence. We all deserve a pat on the back for what we've accomplished.
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OneEyedJoe
Since it seems that this has turned into a discussion of why we got baptized, I'll play along:
My parents (mostly my father) started putting on the pressure in my early teens, which only had the effect of making me want to do it less. I couldn't understand why it was so important, if I was already going to meetings and out in service, how does going for a swim make me a better person? I also had been trained to resist peer pressure, which made me instinctivly resist anyone who tries to get me to do something I don't want to do. Or maybe I'm just a stubborn mule...I don't know. Anyway, I held out until I was 19 (my brother was 11 when he got dunked). I eventually caved to my father's pressure that he strategically applied right after my girlfriend broke up with me. In my late teens (as I'm sure is the case with many) the stance on dating coupled with a lack of available girls was a serious cause for hesitation on my part, then I met a girl at 19 and totally fell for her, but she eventually broke up with me, and a few days later my father and I had this exchange:
Him: Did she know you weren't baptized?
Me: It never came up.
Him: How do you think she would've reacted had she found out you weren't?
Of course in an emotional state, I took it to mean that god was calling me to the organization and I'd find a new girl (and happiness) there. About a month later I was baptized into the cult.
I still resent my father's behavior that day, but it's really the only thing he's ever done to me that I can hold against him, so I guess I'm lucky. I know it's small potatoes compared to what many have gone through, and he was just doing what he thought was best... Maybe it's the fact that he was always such a good father that makes it stand out so much.
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Legacy
Hi,
I am a witness, & I've said this before on this site...THE BADGE OF HONOR IS NOT THAT IT'S THE TRUTH BUT THAT....IT'S GOD'S ORGANIZATION. That's what gives them this haughtiness. It's not the GB's, it's not the FDS, it's not the NWT, The Lit. or whether it's the truth or not, but it has been proven...it's not the truth...you can rename the mistakes & flip flops ....the light gets brighter all you want...but all witnesses know, it's not the truth...many think when it's time to be judged, they can say, God, I'm a witness, & they think that will get them a pass, didn't God say, everyone saying Lord Lord will not (I forget the rest, hey I just thought of something, if God's name is Jehovah, why didn't God say, anyone saying Jehovah Jehovah)....but God is not interested in what denomination you are. Many witness have never had anything in their life to be proud of, so this suits many that existed in the background of life. Being a witness makes them proud, but so proud to a fault. Those of us who are witnesses are basically attracted to the same message, but we all react differently to it.
Oh sure, I've heard, well it's God's org., but it's run by imperfect men...so saying that to say what ? Each & every person on this earth is imperfect, so again, saying they are imperfect is not an answer but an excuse...& excuses are only good for the person giving it... I think most witnesses don't want to be wrong...has anyone ever notice that witnesses love to have the last word...EX: You know, I know that God & Jesus are two different persons...now the witness could say, you are so right, but instead, they would say, that's true but, many in christiandome, believe...or they are two different person but Jesus is God's son....blabh blah .......see the last word, the person already stated the point & it was correct...so the only thing a witness could & should say is...You are right...in my world I call that, you can't let an orange be an orange....
So another question would be....WHY DON'T YOU QUESTION THE TRUTH ? If it's the truth, it can be question & tested...because if it's the truth ....then it's the truth...
Legacy
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darth frosty
asphinctersays what?
Gets them everytime ;-)
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villagegirl
I think if you try to remember the emotions and feelings at the time
you were baptized, think about it, the moment you "first believed" was
NOT a moment of of belief in Jehovah or Jesus , it was a moment when you
wanted to "belong" to a big community that felt like a family to you.
Baptism for JW's is about the "organization" the "governing body" about
being accepted in the "society" being directed and led by those eight men
who say they are the "sole channel" between you and God. This is not about
you receiving salvation by the Messiah, or having holy spirit in a personal way,
or individual direct access to God with only Jesus as your mediator. Do you see
at all the difference ? As far as life "afterwords" NewYork44m - everybody creates
their own life, their own community, and finds their own work, its called freedom.
The JW's who can't leave are dependent, and thinking by association, with a closed
group, they gain some safety and protection in life.
They do not see two things:
(1) The personal and actual cost of their dependency
(2) The fact support systems exist outside the organization.
Freedom of course, requires taking responsibilty, and making efforts
to plan and organize your life and improve your skills and connect to others.
The WT does not make 'better people' by lists of rules, better people result when
individuals act upon their own lives, and find their work in this world.
DataDog - Sin is when you deiberately act to harm others, OR fail to take actions
that would help others when it is in your power to do so.
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sarahsmile
Design, Were you one of the brave Jw boys that were sent into a camp! I must read some of your post! Some times I feel just like you! Older people using younger ones! It takes a certain age to realize how not to fall for that one!
I think every one should get pats on the back! Your right acknowledgement and pats on the back makes everyone a winner and it just helps. A very good reminder, thanks. Your right about religion but some people manage better at their churches and have healthy lives. The teenagers some bond for life. They have activities all the way up to youth. It is hard for some exjws because we have been burned! A few times visiting churches it made me very much aware of what I never had as a JW.
OneEyeJoe, Boy! they sure did use every angle! Lack of JW girls! Well how many fine ladies that were not jws! It was the same with me at age 17! lack of JW boys! I barely dated! Oh yeah one needs to be evenly yoked! Lol. Father sure did use guilt trip!
Legacy An automatic pass at that! Do they even have to stand before the judgement day or are they too busy witnessing to the resurrected. Badge of honor being in Jehovah's organization! Have you ever asked any JWs," Why dont you question the Truth?" I might borrow this one! They will probably state that they did! Some probably will say that every WT study they questioned the truth during the answers and questions. I have pointed to errors then they say they need to ponder over it! Here is my favorite, I was not given decernment yet they could not understand the sentence. LOL.
Darth Frosty What! How easy was that. Asphinctersays? You got me!
Villagegirl - Although young I actual did not know much about other religions and really thought other religions were part of Babylon the Great. However,I got baptized for the wrong reason. You did hit a nerve because I thought I was protected and the JWs were a safe place! Without Jehovah I woukd no longer be protected. That concept took years to get over.
The question would be for a practising JW: "Why did you get baptized?" I really doubt many would say to follow Jesus Christ or that he has WORDS if eternal life. No doubt they might say," My baptism symbolizes my dedication to Jehovah as his son did."
As a reply what scriptures would you use to prove one should dedicate their lives to Jesus through baptism? I think that is a tough one!
Acts was a good one!