Accusing Ex-JWs of Behaving Like JWs Should be Taboo (page 8)

cofty

My insults are not cheap. - VG

Really - You mean you are actually putting some thought into those rants?

Wow

villagegirl

Cofty - Don't worry I am leaving now, I feel its not fairplay

to enter a battle of the wits, with an unarmed apponent.

What is the intent of referring to people as acting or thinking like a JW or an Elder? To me it is simply manipulative; by saying an idea or poster is a JW type thing and since this community is broadly anti then the idea or poster can also to be rejected without engaging any ideas. In other words the discussion is over everyone reject the JW. Pretty weak and pathetic thinking.

Too many Cofty bashing posts. He has educated himself on some core subjects that are critical for understanding why some religious arguments are not true. He spends hours sharing this knowledge amongst those who need it most (those who seem to make it their mission to avoid studying ) and it is a frustrating , thankless task (if anything this desire to avoid understanding reality is the hallmark of JW/religious thinking!) and yet he continues because that's what people who care do. He tries to tidy up, explain, point out illogical thinking and do more to bring people out of religious mindsets into skeptical, curious worldviews than most on this board - because he can. Too many people are interested in wrapping paper and reject the gift of knowledge because it lacks bows and rainbow farting unicorn pictures. We know that he, like many of us -me- can be irascible sods and harsh but for heck's sake he's our sod and we should love him. Manly cough.

Tal - you didn't present yourself as a strong woman today. No idea what you contributed.

jhine

Is it easier as an "outsider " never JW to see JW mindset in people . Is it possible that even those who are out can find it harder to see that mindset because for so long it was normal to them ?

I ask this as a sincere question because I have occassionally SUGGESTED to someone that maybe they have some JW brainwashing still in their thoughts , as someone earlier said is it wrong to gently try to get someone to be honest with themselves about this if it maybe is true .

I would not like to annoy people who think that as an outsider I should not comment on this , but please think about my original question and answer honestly .

Cofty , no it is not right to make cheap shots and feel free , anyone , to tell me if I do . However, was your sarcasm to VG really valid as a thought out, considered remark ?

Jan

Qcmbr

Why even talk about a 'JW mindset'? Just say it for what it is. Do you think that they are stonewalling, preaching, relying on intuition over logic or are they promoting patriarchal views. What the heck are we saying people? ....or are we just using a bucket term to indicate ' I cant be bothered to answer your point so I'll refer to it as this group's common target'?

cofty

Thank you for your support Qcmbr I appreciate it.

I agree totally that it is lazy to dismiss others as having a JW mindset. I don't think that such a thing even exists. We all knew all kinds of JWs. Name any feture of what might be considered a "JW mindset" and I will introduce you to lots of non-JWs with the same attitudes and recall plenty of JWs who were the opposite.

Of course somebody may hold beliefs that are hang-over from JW indoctrination but attitudes is a different matter.

A fascination for eschatology; viewing others as "worldly" and adopting an "us v them" attitude; worrying that the world is getting worse may all be JW influenced ideas.

If there is any common feature to JW attitudes it is an irrational certainty about being right while having no basis for that confidence. If anybody reflects that mindset it is bible-believing christians.

jhine - No I really don't agree that you are in any position to make those sort of judgements about ex-JWs. The fact that you think there is such a thing as a "JW mindset" illustrates the problem. It is simple prejudice.

As for VG, yes I think that some gentle sarcasm is a reasonable response to constant personal attacks and general ranting.

Laika

Qcmbr, nobody cares what you have to say, you need to stop thinking like a Mormon.

Phizzy

Another way of explaining mind-set is to take the words literally. Jehovah's Witnesses have most of their ideas and attitudes "set" like concrete.

Their mind is closed and will not be changed by rational argument, by evidence or by anything it seems, unless the GB says something ain't or is so, then they will change their view in a flash.

If we have truly left that behind we will properly listen to and evaluate the views of others, will give them a chance.

People like good old Cofty do that and have done that, he doesn't need to sit back and put up with ignorance and silliness though, he, in common with many of us, has done his time at considering these points of view, he even held some of them for a good number of years as a christian Bible believer.

But to simply dismiss such views and arguments with a wave of the hand by labelling them the "JW mindset", or some other similar loaded shorthand label, does not explain the fallacious view to the person holding it, so Cofty is right, if we want to help people visiting this Site, we need to put a bit more effort in than that, and help them along the road to the Freedom of a Rational Mind.

jhine

o.k. Cofty maybe using the term JW mindset is using shorthand . I suppose that I mean what you describe as

"holding onto beliefs that are hang over from JW indoctrination " certain attitudes as you put it . You also give examples of those attitudes . So you do acknowledge that people can still be influenced by their time in the Watchtower even when they have left .

Having discussions with people on the forum I have at times detected attitudes towards certain topics which I know to not be correct because of my own experience in another , for want of a better description , faith system . I have then maybe wrongly , wondered if this is a hangover from previous JW teaching . So I have asked the person to just consider if this point of view is actually their own or just what they are repeating from their time as a JW .

I used the term JW mindset as simply to be a general term for those attitudes which may still be present in some people until challenged so that they become aware that even without realising it they are still being influenced by the teaching they received .

I now realise that using the term JW mindset is upsetting and maybe lazy and the point being made should be clearly set out so as to explain what specifically is being questioned or challenged .

Jan

abbasgreta

I am an ex-jw, now a born-again Christian (no boos and hisses please). I have a right to respond to threads as a Christian, just as Cofty, Phizzy and Minimus etc have a right to respond based on their own particular 'beliefs'. I have been, in so many words, called the equivalent of mentally diseased by somebody on here. That really hurt. Fact is, I have proved to MYSELF my belief structure (which has made me very happy) just as the atheist has proved to HIMSELF what for HIM is 'true'. I have never forced my opinions as 'the only way to go' in my postings and have never been ungracious to a non-Christian poster. I certainly have never belittled anyone by resorting to name-calling. Such unacceptable conduct completely de-values any forum.

For one tiny moment, think what a devout Christian faces on here - time and time again, my personal form of faith is ridiculed as a result of it not being recognised or acceped, God is insulted, Jesus is insulted and the bible is 'rubbished' immediately. Atheist 'Champions of this or that theory' and the various best-selling atheist reference works are not generally thus treated. For example (I'm being specific here but I don't intend it as a personal attack) now and again, topics such as 'Jesus is my Boyfriend' - which contained material designed ONLY to deeply offend Christians, of that I have no doubt, are introduced. That particular thread caused me to stop posting for 6 months I was so sickened by it. Who did it "benefit"? Who was it aimed at? Non-believers on here shouldn't care a fig about a xians' 'relationship status' with Jesus and must surely just shrug their shoulders, mustn't they? Or should they and jw lurkers, find the material derogatary, even 'amusing' perhaps? - "ah, those sick nutter Christians, snigger, snigger - just like how the wt says they are". Is this the real purpose? Does offending Christians/mocking Christianity by finding such material and posting it help cement your OWN belief system which you would then go on to promote to others? A strategy the watchtower adopts.

(Sorry, a bit of a rant there, been bottled up for ages).

We should take the 'live and let live' approach to one another when responding and including our 'convictions' on threads and thereby give lurkers a chance to hear ALL views for 'a way forward' free of the wt. Christianity IS one of the many options out there and that's why I'm here and will carry on posting. However, my endorsing it as the 'best and only' option (which of course is my own personal belief) has NO place in this forum and I will always refrain from doing so. Peace, happiness and true contentment is what I wish for you ALL.x

Accusing Ex-JWs of Behaving Like JWs Should be Taboo

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