The book of Hebrews was obviously written to the Jews, who only believed in the "One true God". So the writer had to explain who Jesus was. The first chapter dispels any notion the he is/was an angel. So is he "a god" or God-manifest in the flesh?
Sorry, Sang, but Hebrews hardly explains God “manifest in the flesh.” It does show Jesus to be Gods appointed representative, His Son;
RSV Hebrews 1:1-2
1 IN MANY and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
2. but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
If God, he would not have to be appointed as anything by another. Remember, the Bible throughout is clear that there is only one God and Jesus himself called the Father “the ONLY True God” at John 17:3.
If God manifest in the flesh, he would still be God. If, as many Trinitarians teach, he was “fully God and fully man,” the simple act of his praying to another and calling another “the only true God” would indicate two Gods!
Ok, im a jew, reading Hebrews, and i read chapter one, just describing how the angels worship jesus, and how he is higher than the angels. Then i read in verse 8, the Father calling Jesus "God".
Again, you are placing modern restrictions on ancient words that didn’t carry those restrictions when penned. The Greek word mostly translated worship,
proskuneo has no real English equivalent. Even when the KJV was translated some 400 years ago, worship was a much broader meaning word than we use it today.
As to the Father calling Jesus God, are you so sure about that? Ancient Greek had no capitals. Who capitalized God to make it look like he were the Almighty? Many in the Bible are called god, even Jesus stated that. Yet, not one of the others are thought to be God Almighty.
I answered Hebrews 1:8 in more detail in an earlier response, so ne need to repeat it.
And being a jew, i know absolutely there is only ONE GOD, so then i read on in verse 10-12. Wait!! Yaweh created the heavens and earth, and these two verses are a direct quote from Psalms 102:25-27. But here in Hebrews they are reffering to Jesus. Then i recall a scripture in Isaiah 44:24 that says I am the LORD that made the heavens and the earth ALL BY MYSELF. And another O.T scripture rapidly comes to mind, Isaiah 42:8,9 I am the LORD, and my glory will i not give to another. (incidentaly,verse 9 is repeated by Jesus in Jn.13:19. Another Isaiah scripture Isa.45:22,23 is repeated in Phillipians 2:10 Yaweh is saying at the sound of HIS NAME every knee will bow..ect... In Phill, it says at the name of Jesus, every knee will bow...ect...And as you might know, there are literally hundreds of paralells between old and new testament like will was quoting earlier.
Sigh! Again, you probably haven’t actually been reading my replies through. God is indeed the creator, but Hebrews is plainly showing that He created THROUGH Jesus. For lack of a better example, much like a contractor who has others do the physical labor, but gets the credit for the building.
If you look to the context of Isaiah, you will find that God was speaking of the false gods that ancient Israel had turned to. Jesus himself often directed the worship to the Father. Yes, occasionally, scriptures show he accepted it too, but remember, the word had much broader meaning than it does today. Maybe that is why Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words defines it as actually “obeisance.”
As to parallels between Old and New Testament, indeed there are many. The most noteworthy is that it nowhere abandons the concept of a single God. To declare Jesus also God gives you plain and simply, two Gods!
I think maybe part of the problem in understanding the concept of the Trinity, (at least it was for me-i was a 3rd generation JW, who did not believe the trinity doctrine for 33 years) was the language Jesus used when refering to his father as doing HIS will, and saying the father is greater..ect...But i think the relationship between the two is very similiar to husband and wife. Even though they are two different people, they are in a perfect union, therefore becomming "One flesh" The wife is in perfect submission to the husband, just as christ is in perfect submission to the father. He came to do "his fathers will". But like Phillipians 2:6 says, "he thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
As far as explaining it, my favorite is the Husband/Wife thing.
But the other day, i was thinking on the subject after reading some of the post, and i kind of thought of one. Jesus is called the Word. Therefore God is "Declared" by him. He is Yaweh in action. Just as my voice loudly declares what i believe and who i am. Without my voice, i could not tell anyone about me. Is my voice me? I should say absolutely. Even though it is invisible, it reflects who i am, and what im all about.
There are many and varied attempts at explaining the trinity, but none make it true, at least not to me. A husband and wife are still two separate and distinct individuals. Two humans. To have God and Jesus in a similar relationship would give you two Gods, again.
As to your claim of Philippians 2:6, sorry, but I have to disagree. You are reading Shakesperean English in modern terms;
RSV Philippians 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
ASV Philippians 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
NIV Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
NAS Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
As you can see, equality with God is not what Jesus had. And again, if he is equal to God and is God, you have two Gods, plain and simple. The Bible is adamant that there is only one God, not individuals comprising God.
However, you also show my main complaint with the Bible. To believe Phil. 2:6 declares Jesus God gives it a huge contradiction. It also shows how some translators have translated according to their theological bias in an attempt to place doctrines in the Bible that don’t exist. If it were a clear declaration, then all translations should agree, except maybe for the NWT.
But, they don’t agree, even amongst the Trinitarian Bibles. Personally, I would love to actually have a complete and literal translation without anybody’s bias, but I don’t think one exists.
