Yeha i get you
Does consciousness end with the death of the body
by givemejustalittlemoretime 129 Replies latest watchtower bible
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designs
So to sum it up- 1. you refuse to answer MadGiant's questions. 2. you're here evangelizing because you want a nicer two wheel bicycle in the next life.
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Perry
Designs, neither you nor anyone else has addressed the “entangled particles” experiment I presented. If anyone is really interested in consciousness, they should at least study the test before they decide to dismiss the results.
It seems pretty conclusive.
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Viviane
I'll address it, Perry.
Your statement "The experiments PROVE that not only is human observation and planning ALONE the determining factor, but also time and distance is irrelevant:".....
Let's talk about that. That statement alone is pretty good evidence that you neither understand the experiment, the inplications or what you are saying. The "observer effect" you are referring to can be re-created with a measuring device and disappears on large scale.
Time and distance are in fact relevant in wave function collapse. What you are trying to say, without knowing it, is "at some small scale, it's possible for there to be a quantum superposition of states. Therefore, Jesus."
The fundamental problem with that is you've got no connective tissues, nothing binding it together, no evidence.
Back tothe drawing board for you.
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Perry
The fundamental problem with that is you've got no connective tissues, nothing binding it together, no evidence.
Well there certainly is no shortage of people accusing their opponents of not having enough connective tissues on this forum.
The "observer effect" you are referring to can be re-created with a measuring device
But it has been PROVEN that the measuring device is NOT involved in the collapse of a particle's wave function. Once this is demonstrated, the idea of "mind over matter" is further bolstered by even more precise experiments that will allow for only, say a 70% chance of knowing which slit the particle emerged from. The result? You guessed it - 30% wave pattern and 70% double band pattern. In other words, 70% knowing = 70% reality. Further, the fact that time is irrelevant and that the "knowing" is what produces the effects, even "after" the fact, demonstrates that if the mind is creating the results, then this apparatus exists at some level outside of "time" as we normally experience it. - Bye, bye Naturalism.
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MadGiant
"Designs, neither you nor anyone else has addressed the “entangled particles” experiment I presented. If anyone is really interested in consciousness, they should at least study the test before they decide to dismiss the results.
It seems pretty conclusive." - Perry
No, it's not conclusive, and I had addressed your concerns since the beginning. I will give it one more try to see if I understand the discussion.
Lanza’s theory of biocentrism has seven principles:
1) What we perceive as reality is a process that involves our consciousness. An “external” reality, if it existed, would by definition have to exist in space. But this is meaningless, because space and time are not absolute realities but rather tools of the human and animal mind.
2) Our external and internal perceptions are inextricably intertwined. They are different sides of the same coin and cannot be divorced from one another.
3) The behavior of subatomic particles, indeed all particles and objects, is inextricably linked to the presence of an observer. Without the presence of a conscious observer, they at best exist in an undetermined state of probability waves.
4) Without consciousness, “matter” dwells in an undetermined state of probability. Any universe that could have preceded consciousness only existed in a probability state.
5) The structure of the universe is explainable only through biocentrism. The universe is fine-tuned for life, which makes perfect sense as life creates the universe, not the other way around. The “universe” is simply the complete spatio-temporal logic of the self.
6) Time does not have a real existence outside of animal-sense perception. It is the process by which we perceive changes in the universe.
7) Space, like time, is not an object or a thing. Space is another form of our animal understanding and does not have an independent reality. We carry space and time around with us like turtles with shells. Thus, there is no absolute self-existing matrix in which physical events occur independent of life.This is not even science. In astronomy, the geocentric model (also known as geocentrism, or the Ptolemaic system), is the superseded theory that the Earth is the center of the universe, and that all other objects orbit around it.
Heliocentrism, or heliocentricism, is the astronomical model in which the Earth and planets revolve around a stationary Sun at the center of the universe. Historically, heliocentrism was opposed to geocentrism, which placed the Earth at the center. The Vatican files suggest that Galileo was forbidden to teach heliocentrism in any way whatsoever, but whether this ban was known to Galileo is a matter of dispute.
In philosophy, idealism is the family of views which assert that reality, or reality as we can know it, is fundamentally mental, mentally constructed, or otherwise immaterial. Epistemologically, idealism manifests as a skepticism about the possibility of knowing any mind-independent thing. As an ontological doctrine, idealism goes further, asserting that all entities are composed of mind or spirit. Idealism thus rejects physicalist and dualist theories that fail to ascribe priority to the mind. Monistic idealism holds that consciousness, not matter, is the ground of all being. It is monist because it holds that there is only one type of thing in the universe and idealist because it holds that one thing to be consciousness.
Biocentrism is a monistic idealistic theory.
Have a read, let me know what you think.
Respectfully,
Ismael
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Quantum/QuantumConsciousness.pdf
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/12/02/biocentrism-is-it-woo/
http://nirmukta.com/2009/12/14/biocentrism-demystified-a-response-to-deepak-chopra-and-robert-lanzas-notion-of-a-conscious-universe/
http://www.biopoliticaltimes.org/article.php?id=5114 -
Viviane
But it has been PROVEN that the measuring device is NOT involved in the collapse of a particle's wave function.
Show me where that has be proven.
Once this is demonstrated, the idea of "mind over matter" is further bolstered by even more precise experiments that will allow for only, say a 70% chance of knowing which slit the particle emerged from. The result? You guessed it - 30% wave pattern and 70% double band pattern.
Actually, no one guessed it. You just entirely made that up.
Further, the fact that time is irrelevant and that the "knowing" is what produces the effects, even "after" the fact, demonstrates that if the mind is creating the results, then this apparatus exists at some level outside of "time" as we normally experience it. - Bye, bye Naturalism.
Except you just also made that up.
Explain how time is irrelevant. Show one source that says the observer can rig the results. Show how, even if that were true, it makes time irrelevant.
You've still got all your work to do ahead of you.
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James Brown
My 2 cents.
The body is surrounded by an aura.
The aura contains all the pertinant data of the body, knowledge and experience
in an aura format, which we do not understand at this time.
When the aura and body combine it is like
a c/d and c/d player combining,
a record and record player combining,
a mp3 file and a media player combining.
When the body dies the aura goes back to God or some God like entity or repository.
For use at a latter date and time.