A key reason why some atheists challenge religious beliefs

by defender of truth 193 Replies latest members adult

• 

  Paris

  Scientific discovery is NOT (as is repeated here on this forum Ad nauseam ), "evidence based" scientific discovery starts as a question with no answer.

  Scientists begin in the abstract, thinking about the unknown, they begin to hypostatize, to speculate ,to create imaginary "proofs" that may be only mathematical formulas that have no basis in reality. They form a hypothesis which sometimes remains unprovable for centuries.

  The propensity on this site to , DEMAND "answers" and evidence based "proofs" is unscientific, it is interrogation and bullying, disguised as scientific method.
  
  The Higgs Particle or Higgs boson was only a hypothesis an unproven theory, a set of mathimatical assumptions, nobody could "prove" for 40 years ! Think how much shouting mocking and "demanding proof" Cofty and Viviane could have done for 40 years. "where is the evidence?" "we want to see it, touch it, give us proof." There was none. Peter Higgs proposed the mathematical mechanism, a mathematical model, that suggested the existence of such a particle in 1964. This is was a theoretical discovery not able to be proven until 2013 , not matter how much anyone "demanded proof" for 40 years.
• 

  Paris

  As far as believers having to "prove there is a God" No one is obligated to answer any questions about themselves, or what they believe or do not believe. That is called BOUNDARIES.

  You cannot in civil society walk up to a complete stranger and start interrogating them and demand answers to your questions, and keep hounding them down the street, its a form of assault. We are for the most part, complete strangers here.

  Atheists even the Type 1 civilzed and polite athesits are all of the stated opinion that believers have some "weakness" some "need" issue. So personally, since I am really not much of an evangelist, I have no desire to engage atheists with proofs that I already know they would reject and mock. To most believers God is proved in life itself and beauty and music and art and the natural world. It simply does not matter to me whether you agree or do not agree or think me odd, I do not give a rats ass.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Wow, Paris, good points and good ways of expressing things that need to be said.
• 

  DJS

  Paris,

  I don't disagree with any of that. Anyone, however, who needs a god in order to behave IS weak. That's kinda sorta all we are saying. Lots of theists would behave either way.
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Atheists even the Type 1 civilzed and polite athesits are allof the stated opinion that believers have some "weakness" some "need" issue.

  All?

  Talk about using a wide paint brush and using sweeping generalizations. Seems eerily similar to the tactics you piss-and-moan about as unacceptable when you perceive they are coming your way.
• 

  Viviane

  No one is obligated to answer any questions about themselves, or what they believe or do not believe. That is called BOUNDARIES.

  You cannot in civil society walk up to a complete stranger and start interrogating them and demand answers to your questions, and keep hounding them down the street, its a form of assault. We are for the most part, complete strangers here.

  Except we aren't on a street and you choose to engage in this conversation and then whine when your points don't stand up to scrutiny. As for the rest of your points, they make equally as little sense as pretending you are an innocent drive by victim here.

  Wow, Paris, good points and good ways of expressing things that need to be said.

  Birds of a feather....
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Ha, Paris sure got the ever charming Viviane's goat.
• 

  Qcmbr

  Whenever we discuss religious belief there is a tremendous amount of tension because the discussion can never be fair or equal. Belief in religion is irrational once someone has been exposed to superior alternative information. Religious belief is like being in love with an abusive person (Christianity for example starts from the premise that you are fallen and must be made whole otherwise you will suffer an eternity of punishment.) As an anti - theist it feels like wandering around a jail offering the keys to inmates who are so used to being badly treated that they mistrust you and cling to their cell doors crying out for 'respect' and giving long speeches about how useful steel bars are for structure and security.

  Speaking for myself alone all I want to convert people to is freedom from an intellectual jail and to enhance their personal responsibility. I offer no structure, no rules , no commandments - I do not offer another religion.
• 

  cofty

  Paris you seem even more insecure in your beliefs now than when you posted as Villagegirl.
• 

  defender of truth

  Paris said:
  " Atheists, even the Type 1 civilzed and polite atheists, are all of the stated opinion that believers have some "weakness" some "need" issue. "
  
  No they don't. As keeps happening on this thread, another prejudice has come to light. Not all atheists judge all believers as having a weakness or being needy.
  
  I have never said that, and I don't believe it is true. There are many reasons that people believe in a God.
  Just one of the other reasons is indoctrination from childhood.
  Also, some believe that an intelligient force, or God, began the process of life in some way and then indifferently left us to evolve. (Deists)
  
  Coming from someone that claims scientific discovery isn't evidence-based, though, I don't know why I'm bothering to reply...
  Paris said:
  " Scientific discovery is NOT (as is repeated here on this forum Ad nauseam ), "evidence based" scientific discovery starts as a question with no answer... The propensity on this site to , DEMAND "answers" and evidence based "proofs" is unscientific, it is interrogation and bullying, disguised as scientific method. "
  [Cofty, please don't start that off again. It's a waste of thread space to argue over it.]