A key reason why some atheists challenge religious beliefs

by defender of truth 193 Replies latest members adult

• 

  Apognophos

  While I think it's inarguable that people should be expected to be able to defend their beliefs with evidence, where I have to get off the bus is when people start acting like religion is inherently harmful. It's a tribalistic flaw in our thinking that everyone has to agree with our views, without first considering whether it really matters that they agree.

  I simply don't see any negative effect from the average person's belief in God. It's easy to use religious extremists as a strawman, but the civilized world does not stand for much of that extremism, and the areas where we do encounter extremism in the first world can be dealt with on an individual basis without attacking the very concept of religion. Doing that just makes people go into defensive mode and become even more entrenched in their position. The best way to make extremism go away is not to argue with it, but to improve living conditions.
• 

  Viviane

  but an easier guide was the modified Bode Law, which predicts the orbits with 5% accuracy.-- EARTH 10, Jupiter 52, with .o1%

  Not even close. Please stop perpetuating that nonsense.

  As to the now very stable setup of the solar system

  No, it isn't.

  

  

  
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  We have two kinds of atheists on this board. Type 1: There are the rude ones who aren't going to be happy until they convert eveyone on the board, or run off everyone who won't convert to atheism. Type 2: Then, there are the ones who might discuss atheism, but respect that not everyone has come to the same conclusion they have. They are not rude to theists, deists or agnostics. They realize that they really don't know who is right about the question of god, so they don't ram their conclusions down everyone's throats. They are frankly sick of the other kind of atheists and their evangelistic type behavior as well. I read it on threads and I get PMs about it from them.

  You aren't going to get anywhere, but with other Type 1's, by "challenging religious beliefs." If you want to discuss beliefs and your questions or issues about them, stop being arrogant and treating people who do not share your conclusions as if they are children that you can jump on, correct and scold everytime they say something you don't like, nor agree with. You turn the board into a school playground and behave as children who can't seem to enjoy life unless you're bullying someone. You behave as if you're superior to theists and diests, even agnostics at time. So then, prove you're superior by not behaving in such a childish way. Surely you are kidding yourselves when you hit that submit button, that you don't feel just a little out of control. I know there is a voice in your head, your conscience, telling you that your behavior is unacceptable.

  Really, you guys, you're not JWs anymore and you don't have to the convert the board, nor the world, to atheism.

  You're tired? The rest of us non Type 1 atheists are tired, too.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  I just got this is in a PM from an athiest:

  "Zealots of any kind bother me,including Zealot Atheists..
  If people have beliefs so what?.."
• 

  cofty

  Outstanding example of strawman fallacy FHN

  The important issue is not which set of superstitions a person subscribes to but the fact that they value superstition above evidence.

  That is what kept us captive to a cult.

  Facts and evidence really matters. If somebody can take account of reality and still hold a form of faith that is consistent with it, then good luck to them. The problem is that most believers want reality to conform to their superstitions.

  Does your Theology Align With Reality?

  Since this is a religious discussion forum where people come looking for important answers, I will never apologise for exposing the faslehoods in all forms of religion and faith-based thinking in general.

  We cannot prove there is no god but there are many things we can prove beyond all reasonable doubt. People need this inoformation to make informed decisions.

  Sometimes bad ideas need to bo countered robustly and sometimes ridicule of those superstitions is a valid response.

  Unlike many believers who think attacking others is justified in the name of Jesus, I never attack people, only their beliefs. Often they find it difficult to see the difference.
• 

  MadGiant

  "While I think it's inarguable that people should be expected to be able to defend their beliefs with evidence, where I have to get off the bus is when people start acting like religion is inherently harmful. It's a tribalistic flaw in our thinking that everyone has to agree with our views, without first considering whether it really matters that they agree." -

  Religions have brought much harm to millions and millions of people throughout our planet’s history.

  Genital modification and mutilation
  Wars
  The Crusades
  The Inquisition
  The 9/11 tragedy
  Ethnic cleansing
  Suppression of women
  Suppression of homosexuals
  Fatwa’s
  Honor killings
  Suicide bombings
  Witch burnings
  Prevention of minority rights
  Promotion of slavery
  Jim Jones tragedy
  Dissolution of family bonds
  General misogyny
  Suppression of art and literature
  Ku Klux Klan
  Punishment and suppression of freethinkers
  Creation of bigotry
  Pope Benedict’s condemnation of condom use for the spread of AIDS in Africa
  Missionaries killing heathens
  Children dying because their parents prayed to their god instead of getting legitimate medical help
  Censorship
  Serial killers who claim to be doing the work of Jesus/God/Satan/Allah
  Exorcisms that result in death of the victim
  David Koresh/Waco Texas tragedy
  Heaven’s Gate tragedy
  Discouragement of critical or rational thought
  Indoctrination of children into a religion without giving them a chance to learn about all other religions
  Abuse of power/authority by religious leaders
  Cults
  Constant bloodshed in the Middle-East
  Ireland between the Catholics and the Protestants
  Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse blood transfusions for religious reasons
  Teaching children inaccurate, misleading and outright false concepts in a place called the Creation Museum in Kentucky.
  Aztecs killed 20,000 people annually to appease the gods.
  Inca’s sacrificed 200 children in a single ceremony.
  Early 1900′s Muslim Turks waged genocide against Christian Armenians and Greeks.
  Muslim countries today still practice barbaric punishments from their holy books such as amputations for thievery and stoning to death for adultery.
  Mountain Meadows Massacre of 1852 by the Mormons.
  Pat Robertson said of the January 2010 Haiti earthquake that killed hundreds of thousands of people, that the people of Haiti deserved what they got because “they had made a pact with the devil."

  Yes, I think it's harmful.

  Ismael
• 

  Apognophos

  Well, that's an impressive list, but I don't place the blame on religion for most of those things because I believe that the underlying cause was an emotional, tribalistic or instinctual aspect of human nature. The religion was simply a justification for, or codification of, the pre-existing belief. More importantly, I don't believe we can change the way people act and think through direct confrontation. We can only try to improve living standards, teach children to think critically, and hope that the human race matures over time.
• 

  MadGiant

  "You aren't going to get anywhere, but with other Type 1's, by "challenging religious beliefs." If you want to discuss beliefs and your questions or issues about them, stop being arrogant and treating people who do not share your conclusions as if they are children that you can jump on, correct and scold everytime they say something you don't like, nor agree with." -

  My goal is not to challenge religious believes, correct or scold. But once an opinion is out there, is fair game for criticism, analysis and questioning. Should be tested, challenge and justified.

  That happens in every aspect of life and every discipline science, art, literature, etc.

  Ismael
• 

  cofty

  There are some who would like the forum to be a haven for any sort of woo and superstition, just as long as it isn't Watchtower approved.

  Personally I would have no interest in being part of a forum where everybody saw things in the same way.

  I want my thoughts to be challenged as robustly as possible. I want to hear the very best arguments for theism and faith. None of us should want to be wrong any longer than necessary.
• 

  MadGiant

  "Well, that's an impressive list, but I don't place the blame on religion for most of those things because I believe that the underlying cause was an emotional, tribalistic or instinctual aspect of human nature." -

  With all due respect; How can you separate one from the other? Can religion exist without the emotional, tribalistic or instinctual aspect of human nature?

  Respectfully,

  Ismael