I remember back in the day when I was a devout JW in the 90s Elders would go to the hospital to try and see if a person took a blood transfusion. I remember my cousin was having surgery after a severe car accident and if he did not take blood the doctor said he would have died. The elder came to the hospital and badgered my cousin's wife until she told him my cousin did get some blood. The elder left in a huff and told my cousin-in-law "Tell Sam he will be disfellowshipped and you will be publicly reproved for not informing the body of elders". My cousin-in-law went off and told the elder to get the F----k out of the room. The elders disfellowshipped my cousin and his wife for "conduct unbecoming a christian".
Is taking a blood transfusion a "Disfellowshipping or Disassoication" offense?
by booker-t 33 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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sir82
Current policy, if it is determined that a JW has taken a blood transfusion, is that he has "disassociated himself by his actions".
Same result as if he joins the army, or joins a church. No judicial committee, just "automatically" expelled. This is done to avoid legal issues in some countries (so they can technically say "we don't expel our members for joining the military or accepting a blood transfusion". Left unsaid, of course, is that they consider such persons as having "resigned" voluntarily, and of course the end result between "disfellowshipping" and "disassociation" is perfectly identical).
In the case of a blood transfusion, policy is for 2 elders to visit the recipient to "determine his attitude". If they discover that he panicked and acquiesced to a blood transfusion under duress, and is now "truly repentant", the elders may decide that he is not disassociated after all.
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blondie
I do believe that this change in concept is not in any WTS publication available to the rank and file jw, it is only in the most recent elder's manual and even then several years after the policy was in place.
The Times of England reported:
"Jehovah's Witnesses are to be allowed to accept blood transfusions after an extraordinary U-turn by leaders of the controversial religion. Elders have decreed that Jehovah's Witnesses who accept blood transfusions under life-or-death circumstances will no longer face excommunication from their religion." (2000 June 14)
"they…would be viewed as having disassociated themselves from the religion."
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Band on the Run
I thought from reading other threads that one's repentance is at issue. If one can put on a show of tears and remorse, will they still be disfellowsihiped? With HIPPA enacted, how do the elders even know that you had a transfusion? If any Witness reports you, the Witness should be summarily fired for violating serious federal and state laws. People, in general, want privacy for medical decisions.
How did they know about oral sex?
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TD
Disassociation is supposed to be entirely voluntary. Elders are not supposed to judge the sincerity of repentance. If a person says they're sorry, then they're sorry.
Of course the average JW Elder has the brains of a carpet tack and even less understanding of why disassociation exists apart from disfellowshipping in the first place, so nothing is surprising.
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blondie
*** w12 11/15 p. 30 pars. 16-17 Forgive One Another Freely ***
16 In accord with Jehovah’s will, Christian elders have been entrusted with the responsibility of handling cases of wrongdoing in the congregation. These brothers do not have the full insight that God does, but they aim to make their decision harmonize with the direction given in God’s Word under the guidance of holy spirit. Hence, what they decide in such matters after seeking Jehovah’s help in prayer will reflect his point of view.—Matt. 18:18.
17 Here is where loyalty matters. Will you forgive and confirm your love for those judged to be repentant? (2 Cor. 2:5-8) This may not be easy, especially if you are a victim of the wrongdoing or are related to a victim. However, by placing your trust in Jehovah and his way of dealing with matters through the congregation, you will act wisely. You will demonstrate that you really do forgive freely.—Prov. 3:5, 6.
16, 17. How should you respond when Christian elders judge a sinner as repentant, and why?
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problemaddict
There is the policy, and then there is the policy. This is still a third rail for leadership, but a rallying point for rank and file. So leadership understands the basic concept of "we don't really disfellowship for that anymore", which means essentially, we still teach its wrong, but leave up to people to decide, and so there isn't a stink about it if someone takes blood and feels bad about it we "extend mercy".
However, if someone took blood and was beligerant, vocal, and unrepentant, you can be sure they would still be announced as no longer one of Jehovahs Witnesses.
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ABibleStudent
Band on the Run - How did they know about oral sex?
BITE control is powerful enough for "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JWs to confess to elders. As crazy as it sounds, I know, that my former friend who is a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW confessed to elders that she committed pornei with the JW, who she was/is dating. She was disfellowshipped. I don't know why she was disfellowshipped, because she was obviously repentent by confessing to the elders.
Who would want to be in a relationship with someone who cannot resolve issues privately between each other?
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
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TD
when Christian elders judge a sinner as repentant
Dissasociation differs from this procedure. Or have things changed in the last few years?
Two Elders are/were supposed to meet with the person very briefly and confirm that the action did in fact happen and that it was voluntary. This was conceived as an end-run around the Espionage Act of 1917 and 18 U.S.C. § 793 today. There cannot, by definition be involuntary disassociation. That's disfellowshipping and defeats the whole purpose of disassociation.
In the case of transfusion, it is enough for the person to have a memory lapse. If the Elders attempt to judge the sincerity of this, then it is no longer disassociation.