I hear yah!! I thought that I was wrong once. It turns out that I was right!! WTH?!??
DD
HOW TO AVOID THE A-HOLE SPIRIT OF SOME HERE...
by DATA-DOG 152 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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MadGiant
"When someone says that "You can share your beliefs as long as you can defend them logically", they're really saying, "We don't have any tolerance for your beliefs." Nobody can prove their position absolutely, so to require someone else to meet your personal standards of proof and to play by your own rules and your own reading of the Bible is to basically say, "Religionists not welcome."" -
I really think that you are mistaken.
The problems begin when people believe more strongly than their own perception of evidential support warrants, or when they believe against what their perception of the evidence weighs in favor of, or when they implicitly or explicitly commit themselves to continue believing even should further evidence counter their belief. (lying)Faith, is the word believers reach for themselves when they are out of arguments and even insist on believing anyway, or when they try to justify why they believe things that they themselves do not perceive adequate evidence for (intellectual dishonesty).
I have encountered believers on this forum, who debates about beliefs and then outright say that they will not change their minds no matter what evidence or arguments are brought. They are committed in principle to believe their religious beliefs no matter what the evidence says. And even they would like to “reason” with others and insist people have to have an open mind and heart to accept their beliefs. (deceiving)
Take care,
Ismael
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MadGiant
Really ? "Atheist Nations are more intelligent, educated and happy" ? Really ? Which nations would those BE exactly ? China ? Its an atheist nation that has NO tuition free high school, NO pensions for the elderly and NO disabilty or workers compensation of welfare and enslaves millions to live and sleep in factories so a small Communist select can enrich themselves off the misery of millions, who regularily commit suicide they are such "happy athesits"
Respectfully,
Ismael
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Phizzy
The expression "Atheist Nations" is a bit misleading, ADCMS's post lists Secular nations, those who do not have an established State religion or Church, and the study showing their relative happiness. Many people within such nations are believers.
One has to understand the unique history and culture of China to realise their , again unique, position.
Yes, they do not have a national deity, or religion, but they do have an almost ubiquitous practice of Ancestor Worship, and its concomitant belief in a Spirit world, so they are hardly what I would label "Atheist".
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DJS
Ok, I said I was through. I lied. This is the first of many posts on the atheist/theist discussioins which are always initiated by theists (feelers/believers) making broad based statements regarding atheists that we are all baby killing whores. Nothing could be further from the truth, but that is in aligment with the theists being feelers/believers and avoiding using their brains (I know, it hurts when you use a muscle that has never been used before). Their lack of control in avoiding the keyboard is my primary objection with theists.
From a recent article - the data is easily verified.
The godless commit less crime, have longer marriages and are more highly educated than almost any other group in America.
As referenced by ADCMS: According to Federal Bureau of Prisons data, the number of responding people in prison acknowledging they were Catholic was 39 percent; Protestant, 35 percent; Muslim, 7 percent; Jewish, 2 percent; and godless, 0.2 percent (20 percent did not respond). Since the number of godless is estimated to be 10 percent of the general population, all things being equal you would expect their prison population to be 10 percent.
If, as many people assume, the godless do not lead moral lives, you would expect the number to be greater than 10 percent. The fact that the actual number is 50 times less than expected can lead to only one of two conclusions: either the godless commit less crime than the religious or they’re too smart to get caught very often.
According to a Barna Research Group report, fundamentalist Christians have the highest divorce rate, followed by Jews and Baptists. The godless are tied with Catholics and Lutherans for the lowest divorce rate. It seems that some groups that claim to follow the Bible most strictly are not putting their money where their mouths are. The godless who are thought to be without morals seem to take their vows more seriously.
According to a Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life Survey, the least-educated Americans are Jehovah’s Witnesses (THAT certainly explains a lot), followed by black Protestants and fundamentalist Christians. The most highly educated are reformed Jews, followed by Unitarian Universalists and the godless.
Some groups seem to like their flocks ignorant so that pastors’ interpretations of God’s edicts are not questioned. Other groups prize scholarship and achieve more in their lives here on Earth.
(I have the data on this and will post it soon) In fact, a review of worldwide studies found that criminality and religion go hand in hand. The countries with the most religious people have the highest crime rates, highest sexually transmitted diseases and the highest teen pregnancy rates.
This is also true in the United States. The more religious a state’s population, the lower the level of education and income, the higher the crime, STD and teen pregnancy rates - and just about any other dysfunction. More data to follow.
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DJS
From Google Scholar (I have the study - you can also purchase it). This is web overview.
The Relation Between Intelligence and Religiosity
A Meta-Analysis and Some Proposed Explanations
- 1 University of Rochester, NY, USA
- 2 Northeastern University, Boston, MA, USA
- Miron Zuckerman, Department of Clinical and Social Sciences in Psychology, University of Rochester, PO Box 270266, Meliora 431, Rochester, NY 14627, USA. Email: [email protected]
Abstract
A meta-analysis of 63 studiesshowed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity. The association was stronger for college students and the general population than for participants younger than college age; it was also stronger for religious beliefs than religious behavior. For college students and the general population, means of weighted and unweighted correlations between intelligence and the strength of religious beliefs ranged from −.20 to −.25 (mean r = −.24). Three possible interpretations were discussed. First, intelligent people are less likely to conform and, thus, are more likely to resist religious dogma. Second, intelligent people tend to adopt an analytic (as opposed to intuitive) thinking style, which has been shown to undermine religious beliefs. Third, several functions of religiosity, including compensatory control, self-regulation, self-enhancement, and secure attachment, are also conferred by intelligence. Intelligent people may therefore have less need for religious beliefs and practices.
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Phizzy
In the light of another Thread , should not the Title of this one refer to the "Donkeyhole" attitude of some here ?
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DJS
One more (I have tons of this stuff). And as a reminder and as I have prefaced each time we (me and you theists) talk about this, no atheist will suggest that there is a direct correlation or cause/effect between atheism and the positive data, but, as the researchers continue to discover, there is a strong correlation.
I will stop when you stop, Feelers/Believers.
Journal of Religion & Society Volume 7 (2005)
ISSN 1522-5658
Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies (2005) (Off Site PDF) by Gregory S. Paul
In this landmark study, Gregory S. Paul compares rates of religiosity and societal dysfunction between 18 democratic nations in the developed world in order to "test whether high rates of belief in and worship of a creator are necessary for high levels of social health." Paul finds that "in almost all regards the highly secular democracies consistently enjoy low rates of societal dysfunction," demonstrating that widespread religious belief does not improve societal health, and that moreover there is a positive correlation between a first-world country's level of religiosity (e.g., the degree of confidence that a traditional monotheistic God exists) and level of social dysfunction (e.g., homicide rates).
“There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms."
"Indeed, the data examined in this study demonstrates that only the more secular, pro-evolution democracies have, for the first time in history, come closest to achieving practical “cultures of life” that feature low rates of lethal crime, juvenile-adult mortality, sex related dysfunction, and even abortion. The least theistic secular developed democracies such as Japan, France, and Scandinavia have been most successful in these regards. The non-religious, pro-evolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator. The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted. Contradicting these conclusions requires demonstrating a positive link between theism and societal conditions in the first world with a similarly large body of data – a doubtful possibility in view of the observable trends."
2005, the Kripke Center Study “Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies"
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Band on the Run
It is not the business of anyone here to dictate what another person must believe. All these atheist - oh, I am so smart - threads have made me tend towards evangelical Christianity. I started a micron away from atheism. There must be some infectious in JW land that continues after people leave. If I want to convince peers of anything, I know I must never insist or lecture. Western democracies stress the importance of the individual. There are certain items that not even a super majority must not touch. Freedom of religion, association, speech were expressly added to the const'n not by the framers but from the general assemblies of the states who refuse to ratify the const'n without express rights. Madison thought that the structures of government would be enough to protect rights.
The content here is not great. Some posters may sound better but it is because the general quality is so low. It takes a lot of arrogance to imposeyour beliefs on others. The people demanded these rights. Of course, a more literate and wealthier voter existed. I don't think anyone here would qualify to vote.
Yes, Nikita Kruschev banging his shoe at the UN. He was an atheist. (I don't know. There have been many good biographies published. Maybe he only pretended to be an atheist. I want peace from the evangelicals and the athiests. It is so immature. Thank goodness diplomats have a different mind set. When I started at this forum, the people who said the United States was a Christian nation drove me crazy. Now atheism is just as bad. I've lived for substantial periods of time at two universities. This crap is not what was discussed. Life needs a balance. Zealots of all sorts are dangerous.
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OUTLAW
It is not the business of anyone here to dictate what another person must believe.All these atheist - oh, I am so smart - threads have made me tend towards evangelical Christianity.
Zealots of all sorts are dangerous.....BandOnTheRun
Not to mention tedious and boring and self indulgent..
They want to control the Information allowed in the discussion including questions,answers and conclusion..
The only possible outcome is they must be right..(Non Believer or Believer)..
It`s very WBT$-ish..
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...OUTLAW
...OUTLAW