X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers 169 Replies latest jw friends

hillary_step

Hi Gumby,
My own interest in Clash's words was to try to understand the contradiction in his statement of who leads who to Christ. He seems to be giving Mr. Magniani the credit for having done so, then implying that no man can actually lead another to Christ.
Christian rhetoric is dangerous. When it is screamed out in a spittle lipped, wide eyed, uncompromising dogmatism, it is even more dangerous.
Why is it that most people spend so much time talking about Christianity and such little time living it?
Advertising books, and burying a person with an avalanche of stifling quotations from another persons interpretation of doctrine, is not so far removed in modus from what got us all into this mess once before!
Best regards - HS
Trotafox

Gumby:
.....man does not lead another to christ...man may be a vessel God uses to bring ones to him.
...If God already knows all who are his.....whats the point in trying to evangelize?...God already knows who are his? Do we have any bearing on mans salvation if this is the case?
God uses Man to bring the evangelizing message to Man! (this is the commandment of making disciples).
Do we Christians have a bearing? You bet! A baptized Christian knows the evangelizing message that they are to pass on. If God chooses to use you, you have the option to refuse. That is your free will. God will see to it that person has every opportunity to come to Christ. The one who refuses to be of assistance when called upon, however, has more to worry about this the one Christ is calling. So I'd say Man has a big bearing on it....as it regards our own personal relationship with God. Will he forgive us. Of course, if we ask him to and pray for more courage. It boils down to Christian responsibility.
Does this make sense?
Trot
jst2laws

Hello HS,
Christian rhetoric is dangerous. When it is screamed out in a spittle lipped, wide eyed, uncompromising dogmatism, it is even more dangerous.
Now that brought disturbing images to mind.
Thanks HS
Jst2laws
plmkrzy

Another reason why you think this going to church thing is a bit odd and a message of redemption is silly is because you are unsaved and are going to parish in hell unless God has mercy on you and you repent of you sins and trust Christ.
1 Cor 2:14
quote:
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14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned
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I'll just add one more thing about this statement basiclly due to Trotafox's post. It somehow inspired me to open my mouth again.[8>]
CLASH
I will try and be as clear as possible and not sound rude.
Your statement above, not to mention most of them, followed by a qoutation of 1cor is so incredibly out of line and not only that but you use it as a rebuttle to a statement I made in regards to personal views of organized religions which has absolutely nothing to do what so ever with being saved or having a relationship with God or accepting Jesus as my saviour or being called apon and answering.
It most deffenately is NOT your place to decide who is blessed with Holy Spirit and who is not. You have taken it upon yourself to make not only Christ's decissions for him But his Fathers to boot.
Evangilizing does not necessaraly have to consist of standing on a soap box. And it also does not have to include telling people they will burn in hell unless they adopt "YOUR" learned opinion.
Someone who is TRULY called upon IMHO would not spout such hateful things. I wasn't there myself but based on everything I have read about him and based on what I know in "MY" heart and "MY" personal relationship with him, Jesus did not teach this way.
I really do hope that while you are doing all of your research you put asside some time to study and reasearch more about Jesus then Mr. professor so and so.
ballistic

plm, your signature says Ireland? Are you? I didn't know that. If you are, let me know so I can put you on the map.
Can I just say to everyone, I was a heart and sole witness. (can I coin a phrase?)
I pioneered etc etc and took the whole thing very seriously. But when that rug was pulled from under my feet, I lost any faith and belief I had. I believe in evolution now and am not a member of any religion. But I will say I believe there is some thing "out there" and I have the deepest respect for all you Christains and other faiths too whatever they may be.
clash_city_rockers

Plum wrote:
Well I'm sorry to become a bit sarcastic at this point but unfortunately you completely missed my entire point.
Maybe you'll understand what I meant in a few more years.
In the mean time
Maybe you should be clear on what you say so that communicating meaning would be a lot clearer.
Dino wrote:
I also feel that my worship of the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, should be handled in a dignified, reverent, and devout manner that befits thinking persons. I am not dogmatic in that thinking, to each his own.
First off what you just said is a dogmatic statement in itself. Sorry my friend but you can’t avoid dogmatics when describing a religious worldview. Second growing stronger in the Christian faith is God’s work of grace not yours. When you describe growing in religious faith in god it is not the God of the bible you are growing in but some bazaar concoction that the idol factory in your mind has invented. Your faith is not biblical faith of God’s Grace alone, but your faith is a means to justify ones own righteousness by ones own works. Your idea of faith is just as menacing and oppressive as the legalistic conception of faith that is defined by the Watchtower. Man made religion will never give you peace. Only the free gift of life (justification by faith alone by the imputed righteousness of Christ) is the only means of true peace.
Bona Dea demonstrates he wisdom by saying:
It is arrogant and stupid comments like this that are frequently made by members of the church that prompted me to open the door to the witnesses. I thought surely they are not as judgemental as these(little did I know)
In all your wisdom you should have a clear, detailed, thoughtful and cogent response and a detailed presentation of the alternative to my position. All you gave was an emotional response. Pouting does not contribute to a fruitful dialog. Finally what drove you to the Jehovah’s Witnesses is the love for your own sin and the love of evil. Sin and wickedness are moral characters that go well with the Watchtower.
Plum writes:
It is frustrateing to hear those who profess to have such a close relationship with God actually try and dictate to others wheather or not they are saved. As if it is actually any of thier business in the first place.
No plum it is not I but the scriptures make such a pronouncement. Any bible believing Christian can make the same pronouncement. It is the bible that condemns you not I. This is why you do not make a habit of reading the bible, because the bible calls you to a life of righteousness and holiness to forsake your sin and repent and trust Jesus and all of this is something you do not have the ability to do. Thus the bible speaks that you are totally dependent on God’s mercy calling you to humility and to trust His grace, yet you won’t because you are too proud just like the Watchtower.
hillary_step,
Man is just the means not the cause. Do not confuse the cause of faith (God) and the means (man). So when one is lead by God (cause) to Jesus. He uses means or instruments (man). I hope this has cleared some things up and answered some questions. This may also answer Gumby’s thoughts also. Gumby if it doesn’t let me know and I’ll spend more time on this for you. Thanks.
Six wrote:
I ask this as a brother, because today at 6:30 cst, God is going to strike them all with lightning.
Did you cause the barge to slam into I-40 in the Arkansas - Oklahoma border?

AuntieJane posted:
I believe that the Bible is an essential guide to Christian belief. However, I have a problem with Christian fundamentalists like some posting here who preach the ONLY way to salvation is through the Bible. I believe that Jesus 2 Great Commandments are clear: Love God, Love one Another.
I attend church regularly. I believe in the Trinity; however, it is not a definitive Bible teaching. It is there, it is obvious to Christians who look for it. But I do think that if Jesus / God wanted this to be a Required belief, it would have been very clearly stated. Just my thoughts.
2 Tim 3:15-17 The bible alone (sola scriptura a concept JWs and the WT hate) is good enough for Timothy to be saved then the same can be said for us. Auntie you are wrong Jesus and Jesus alone said HE and HE alone is the only way for salvation. Now how narrow minded is that yet it is true.
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Well got to go. Remember legalism sucks
Blessings,
jr
clash_city_rockers

jst2laws,
I just want to have a reference to pull our resources together. Glad to have you aboard.
Grace and Peace
plmkrzy

ballistic
"plm, your signature says Ireland? Are you?"
the truth is since I cannot travel the way I would like to I just pick places I "Plan" to visit someday.
"CLASH"
It is the bible that condemns you not I.
Well there is obviously nothing left to do but pity you and since I try and pay attention to whats ACTUALLY IN the Bible, I will not even pity you.
Sorry to dissapoint you so much but Jesus happens to dissagree with you also and I think I will take his word over the likes of your's any day of the week.
May you get some needed help and find some peace...somewhere.
Oh and one more thing.
In all your wisdom you should have a clear, detailed, thoughtful and cogent response and a detailed presentation of the alternative to my position.
Your statement is pretty darn incredible considering the fact that you have chosen to pay no attention to anyone but your self and put words in everyone esles mouth.
You were answereing to reply's that aren't even there!
This is why you do not make a habit of reading the bible,
Where EVER do you come up with this stuff?
I suppose next you will be telling us you can see through walls.
I was taking you seriously at first but that is no longer possible.
btw you need not be so hostile and defensive. The next time you read anything in your bible why don't you try "READING" it.
jst2laws

Clash,
I just want to have a reference to pull our resources together. Glad to have you aboard.
As I said I am a Christian now, but I'm not sure what you mean by "Glad to have you a board". Please don't forget that I said:
if you want to help JW's to accept Jesus Christ I cannot think of a better way to fail than to be dogmatic about doctrines not clearly stated in the bible such as the trinity and to condemn others as unsaved because they do not accept your interpretation. I'm sorry but to me this approach IS NOT the way of Christ.
I'm glad to think we have something in common, but do we agree on what that is?
Jst2laws
hillary_step

Clash, You note:
Do not confuse the cause of faith (God) and the means (man).
Errr. Actually it was you who managed to do that. I asked for clarification of a contradictory statement in which you at one and the same time seemed to include and preclude any 'man' from having led you to Christ. What I think you meant to say is that God worked through Mr.Magniani to lead you to Christ.
My immediate inclination is to bring a Class Action Suit against Mr.Magniani for the result of his work, as I am quite sure that God would not turn up in Court if I subpoenaed him…..lol
Seriously Clash, get off the wobbly soap-box for a while, judgment belongs to Christ if the Bible is to be believed, not to you.
Best regards - HS

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

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