by Enzo 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Witness My Fury: I had that impression as well, but was a little too polite to say it.
The characterization of former members as arrogant, prideful, and so forth is an oft used trope by many cults. I do wonder if this could be an effort by certain cults (like Scientology) to spread disinformation. I'm sure Steven Hassan has stepped on many toes. This is, of course, speculation on my part, which is not backed up by any proof.
Enzo,
Whatever!
I'v had a great conversation, with different Psychiatrist, About the BITE model, and they said to me that in the psychiatric community this model is not accepted, and still under discussion.. Thus even if he is a recognised excit counselor, I think in a Court Case you would have a lot of difficulties, to prove that mind control exist based on this model
The reason I started this topic, is that there a lot of fans of Steven Hassans Theories, and iidolizing, and adoring his ideas..( see interview with John Cedars). If you want to beliefe in his BITE model you have this freedom, But I wanted to inform you all that there are other books, from scholars and other therapies that are also succesfull in helping people to leave destructive Cults. But I would advice to go to a recognized psychologist, and follow an intense therapy, and don't let pseudo science manipulate you in accepting ideas that are not accepted iby scholars in the psychiatric community..
But I have seen that this topic seems to be very sensitive to certain of you, because you have accepted the BITE model as your Believe system, and are not open to any constructive criticism, thus I will stop commenting and give my opinion on this topic. And wish you the best in your research of real freedom...
Enzo: But I would advice to go to a recognized psychologist, and follow an intense therapy, and don't let pseudo science manipulate you in accepting ideas that are not accepted iby scholars in the psychiatric community..
Here is the problem. How do you arrive at the conclusion that this is "pseudo science" that "manipulate" the many people on this thread? What is your evidence? Is it because it is rejected by a vast majority of other researchers it is pseudo science? In which case how do you establish this majority?
The reason people here look positively on the BITE model is because it very accurately reflected their own issues with the JW -- i.e. Steven Hassans points for each entry in the BITE model reflected experience they themselves had experienced with the JW. Now you can try and tell people that the JW are not emotionally manipulative, or that this has no bearing on them being a high-control group or whatever, but It is not at all fair of you to claim the BITE model is a "Belief system". Again such a claim --based on absolutely no evidence-- does not exactly scream you are in academia yourself.
More importantly, how come you again and again try to invalidate the people who actually respond to you?
For instance: But that's unfortunately the behaviour of some ex-Cult members: an arrogance, a Mr or Ms knows it all attitude..and in a very defensive modus...and try to shoot down every other opinion an other person can have.
So now it would appear the people on this thread ARE ex-cult members and their assessment of the JW group (based on among other things Hassans ideas) is CORRECT? So your point is that Steven Hassan might be correct re. the JW, and the people here who used Hassans methods did arrive at the right answer, but he is still highly problematic?
Bohm: thank you for responding,
But it' interesting to note that you are good in picking out some things you like about my post.. this is no so proffesional, and leads to manipulate others to accept your vision.. In my post a gave indeed criticism to the BITE model, but I said also that it's your freedom tho accept en believe in the BITE Model. Why didn' you quoted this? Because you are not sincere, and try to discredit others, with your manipulate arguments..
And by the way Bohm, I have study, and I am trained in Psychology, and I am proud of it. And you? Have you experience in the area of Psychology, and Psychiatry? About the fact you are nerved because I invalitade other ideas, in Europe and other Countries where we live in a Democracy, we have a free expression..to debate, and the right to have another vision. We are not in Nord Corea, where free expression is forbidden.. Thus if you can accept another vision, or criticism, than you have a problem, and your behaviour contradicts your BITE model (see information control)
greetings Enzo
There are other ways besides the BITE method to identify cults. The great thing about the BITE method is that current cult members can understand it. And it is certainly fine to look at other ways and to question this one. A huge problem exists among experts when it comes to defining cults. It is even complicated by cults, themselves, trying to narrow definitions to exclude their own group.
There are places that try to enforce behavior and influence others concerning information and thought. A typical classroom comes to mind. But fully understanding BITE helps one to see that it goes beyond that. Cults actively seek to ban outsider thoughts and information. None of these things can be summed up in nice short discussions.
This discussion could be likened to defining what a bug and an insect are. All insects are bugs but not all bugs are insects.
I will say that all groups that seek to control members' Behavior, Information, Thoughts, Emotions are cults. But there can also be cults that don't do all of that.
I will also add that, in my opinion, the groups that seek that control to lesser degrees or not at all, are less dangerous to the members. The typical Christian church comes to mind.
Enzo: I wanted to inform you all that there are other books
Yeah, we know. Thank you Captain Obvious!
What makes you think we don't.
You come to this forum and start dissing on Steven Hassan ASSUMING we all "idolize" him, which we don't and insult long-time forum members and refuse to answer straight-forward questions.
Get the clue.
Oubliette
Parental Alienation is not accepted by the psychological powers that be either. However Parental Alienation is used and abused every day in courtrooms around the world. These practices tell us much about the perception of the psychological academia by others and how they are used as polar opposites in courtrooms or completely ignored all together.
