Topics I’ve Been Pondering On

by JWINQUESTION 109 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Apognophos

  I would appreciate the replies to this topic be made without cursing or sarcastic comments.

  I'll try, dagnabbit.

  I wonder is this how I am going to end up like after I leave.

  One of the big revelations I had before I really learned TTATT was when I realized that there was nothing forcing me to become a different person if I left the religion. I could even continue living by all the same standards if I wanted! In fact some of my personal standards are more strict than that of the religion, though I also relaxed a couple of my standards when I left (mentally; I'm still in physically) when I realized that those standards were unreasonable and not even all that Biblical.

  Perhaps you're under the illusion that it's only prayer and the holy spirit that keep you a good person right now. Well, how confident are you that God has been helping you? Have you ever felt more than a short-lived boost of strength after a prayer for strength? Are you sure that boost isn't just because prayer is a form of meditation, and you temporarily boosted your resolve by meditating on what you wanted to do better at?

  In all likelihood, you've been doing these things on your own all along. It's like a kid who was never told to take the training wheels off his bike. One day he realizes that he hasn't needed them for years. But the Society does their best to make JWs afraid of taking those wheels off. "Others have fallen over and died for doing that! World bad! Witnesses good!"

  That being said, giving up faith in the Watchtower is not at all the same as giving up belief in God. You need to take the time to just read an awful lot and do a lot of thinking; it doesn't matter what anyone here tells you that you have to believe. Just don't be afraid; there's nothing to fear. The truth really does set you free.
• 

  berrygerry

  4 points made me reflect.

  1. Love - or the lackthereof, both in the KH, but also the contempt verbalized to worldly persons, no one or no charity is worthy of being shown help.

  2. The waste of time with all the campaigns. Not even knocking at doors - just delivering flyers. Why not just use the Post Office, then?

  3. The cruelty, nastiness, and invasiveness of JC's, ESPECIALLY with minors. No scriptural precedent whatsoever. DF'ing is the exact opposite of Corinthians.

  The incestuous man was banned from the meetings until he cleaned up his life.

  When he did clean up his life, he was welcomed back IMMEDIATELY, with no probation.

  (Check the timelines of 1 Corinthians and 2 Corinthians - also factor in all the time needed to write, send and receive 4 letters or reports.

  4. The push for child baptism. NEVER happened in the first century.

  I began researching these points just using the Bible and "old light."

  The good that you refer to is because of Biblical teaching, not the WT.
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  AlwaysBusy

  I appreciate your post. I was df'd 17 years ago, and have been treated horribly by the Elders since that time. I'm not going into the story here, but it hasn't been easy for me. I love the Bible and have tried to live a good life, I study, go to meetings, or listen on the phone tie-in, have never missed a memorial. I don't drink, swear, and I am not immoral and I do believe that there are some beautiful, sincere and loving people in the KH. I also believe that some of the most wicked people are in the KH. I have learned some lessons, that might help you. 1. If you want to believe, believe, don't let anyone keep you from your beliefs. 2. Don't trust anyone inside the KH, I'm sorry, but you can't, because it will backfire on you, especially now, with the paranoia being spread via the WT. 3. Don't judge anyone, inside or outside. 4. As far as homosexuality is concerned, leave them to their chosen lifestyle. They should have all of the rights the rest of humanity is given, and that includes not being judged or criticised Remember, Jehovah said to love all people, regardless of race, creed, whatever. 5. Remember that you are a JW because of Jehovah and Jesus Christ, NOT for the elder-worship, or GB-worship. 6. Do NOT let some of the policies deter you from being a loving, caring human being. 7. BE happy, do some of the things that this beautiful earth has to offer you....get a hobby, read about things you are interested in, take a class, spend time with friends. Do something that gives you joy. And remember these are jut weak people, trying to fit in. Be kind. Eventually, it will all work out, and you will decide what is best for you. Peace.
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  Witness My Fury

  Allowing yourself the freedom to question and then learning how to think for yourself are some of the great things worth fighting for.

  Question everything. That includes your own cherished beliefs and ideas.
• 

  Terry

  Welcome to you!

  Relax.

  We are free to think here.

  We are free to be angry or not.

  We can ask questions and seek answers.

  Nobody is the Big Cheese with all the answers.

  Think of JW-net as an Out-Patient clinic. There are ambulatory patients, emergency patients and a few D.O.A.'s

  This is all a part of a very slow process of FIRST AID and RECOVERY.

  _____________________

  You have been sealed off from the rest of humanity.

  There is nothing to prepare you for access to reality without LABELS.

  Instead of taking somebody else's sacred pronouncement as reality--you can test things out like a sience experiment.

  ______________________

  Take your time, take a deep breath, and keep asking questions.

  Fear-based thinking is a habit. There is no need to be afraid.

  If something is TRUE, it stands out and apart and can take anything thrown at it.

  But, if something is FALSE--it tries to dodge and make excuses and name-call and label.

  _____________________________

  There are only THREE questions you need to ask and answer.

  But, I'm not going to say what they are . . .

  Once you do, you'll know where you belong.

  So WELCOME!
• 

  JWINQUESTION

  Thank you all for your comments. For me, I am sort of confused right now. I did read the Watchtower article last week and found the portion on apostasy a bit too much. I mean shouldn’t the truth stand to anything? For me, I don't see what’s wrong talking with "apostates" to get their view on things and see how it compares to what we teach. If we aren't allowed to fully "test the inspired word" then that means the "truth" must be hiding something correct? I still respect some JW teachings but like I said earlier there are a lot of polices I am against or indifferent about. There are many different views on life from these ex-JW's and I'm not sure if I can accept the fact that "there isn't one true way". I just feel like even though a person has the right to marry someone of the same sex and it doesn't harm our way of living, don't we have a responsibility to warn them about their way of living? I brought out earlier how I read an article how gay partners are 17 times more likely to get an STD. The thought in my head of gay people dying because of increasing STDS due to their sexual lifestyle saddens me. That is why I don't condone the practice.
• 

  OneEyedJoe

  Welcome!

  It is just when I see many (not all) posters and ex JW’s curse, I wonder is this how I am going to end up like after I leave.

  If/when you leave, you'll only do what feels right to you. I had similar objection upon my first perusal of this site, but realized that it's just people being who they are, and everyone has different values and reacts differently to "waking up" to the truth about 'the truth.' Please remember, too, that many folks here have been visciously and irreprably injured by the policies of the watchtower society. Many have lost loved ones due to the (unscriptural) blood doctrine, some have been molested and had their attacker defended and covered up by the society. A large portion here have also lost loved ones to the unscriptural and painful practice of shunning. All this (and more) can understandably cause a great deal of anger and resentment that sometimes is difficult to express in a cathardic way without the use of a swear or two.

  I’ve noticed a lot of former JW’s have become either Atheists or Agnostics. To be honest, I can’t see accept those beliefs either. Let’s say I had a son who was only a baby that died a six months, am I wrong to believe that I would see him or do I need to accept the cold reality that I never will? Because I hear Atheists say live your life to the full now and do what makes you happy but what about if we were talking about a baby or a young child that died, even a young adult who didn’t even began to live their life?

  Yes, there are a lot of atheists and agnostics here. I believe there is a post somewhere with a Pew poll regarding religion that found that of the 2/3rds of born-in JWs that leave, roughly half become atheist/agnostic. This is somewhat understandable, if you consider what someone goes through upon leaving the JW religion. Upon finding that they've been systematically lied to (many for their entire lives) in the name of God can certainly cause someone to question the existance of any god. Also, the realization that you've been lied to for so long can often lead someone to resolve in their hearts not to accept anything without evidence. That is a road that often leads to atheism. If you stick and engage in some of the lively debate that goes on here, you may find some of your posts are debated by atheists. What you probably won't find, however, is someone here coercing you to become atheist by causing your family to shun you otherwise.

  Regarding the homosexuality issue, if it were okay then why can’t two people of the same sex produce a child? And after reading a recent 2014 article (Not a JW or religious article) about gay sex, it states that gay sex has been leading to increasing sexual diseases even to those who use protection. It seems that most people on here are okay with gay marriage. Of course, it is also wrong for me to hear on news how some anti-gay extremists go to far and kill off or murder gay people. That is horrible and something that makes me sick to the stomach to hear gay people being murdered like that. However, I am the kind of person who wouldn’t condone the practice not just because of religious issues but the increasing related diseases that has been associated with gay sex.

  Assuming homosexual practices cause all manner of ill concequences upon the practicer (this is debatable, but let's make the assumption for the sake of argument) what does that mean for you? I'm assuming you don't identify as homosexual, so who cares what gay people do? Upon waking up to the full scope of the lies that you once believed, you may find that you're unwilling to condem other people who aren't hurting anyone (except, perhaps, themselves) based on beliefs that might be wrong. What two consenting adults do in private is no business of mine, and it certainly has nothing to do with the moral charecter of those adults in any areas in which I might have dealings with them. Because of this, I find it impossible and morrally unconscionable to condem homosexuals.

  Welcome to the forum, I hope you stick around. You sound like a thinking person that's out to find what the real truth is, and this site has certainly been a help to many in that regard. It's also a tremendous support to many (myself included) as it can feel like the floor is falling out from under you the more you learn.
• 

  Apognophos

  I just feel like even though a person has the right to marry someone of the same sex and it doesn't harm our way of living, don't we have a responsibility to warn them about their way of living? I brought out earlier how I read an article how gay partners are 17 times more likely to get an STD.

  Don't you think they already know? What are they supposed to do about it? Virtually everyone has a libido. It's life's basic instinct -- to mate and propagate. Yes, homosexuality seems unnatural because it can't yield offspring, but the ones who are born gay really can't help that! Their libido is directing them towards the same sex. Many of them would tell you that they would wish themselves straight if it meant being able to be "normal"; at least, they would do this if they didn't have to give up a relationship with a loved one.

  By the way, prepare to continue getting flooded with responses, this always happens when an active Witness shows up :-)
• 

  OneEyedJoe

  The thought in my head of gay people dying because of increasing STDS due to their sexual lifestyle saddens me. That is why I don't condone the practice.

  Try this for a little perspective:

  The thought in my head of children dying because of car accidents due to their parent's choice to use a car for transportation saddens me. That's why I don't condone driving.

  Everything in life has risks. Some risks you may not be willing to accept, but others you may be. The risks you accept may be different from the risks others accept. That's just the way it is. You have no more responsibility to warn homosexuals of the risks of their lifestyle than your responsibility to warn people of the risks of commuting to work in a car. Most homosexuals view their sexual orientation as vital to their existence, and are thus unlikely to stop regardless of knowing the risks. There's no need to be a downer and spend your life warning everyone about the risks of everything they enjoy.
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  blondie

  Welcome to the board

  It would be helpful when citing sources to support your statements, to tell us where, who, what and a link to the information so we can check it out ourselves.

  Also there are posters on here who are not in agreement with that lifestyle. It is dangerous to lump everybody here into one category, opinion, or belief.

  Blondie

  (The WTS has a habit of citing sources but not naming them, date said, their credentials, and a link to make sure it is not out of context)