by Sirona 40 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
Sirona,
Yes I'd have to wonder about that. Don't think I'd be askin him round to any kiddy parties myself.
I suppose it depends on what/how the child says it.
I still have to wonder what that level of brainwashing could do to even a four year old.
Bang
Just wondering what everyone thinks should be done if there is suspected child abuse. We tell the WTS that the 2 witness rule is wrong, then we tell them that doing something is wrong.
Sirona
Just tell them the 'truth'. They're always wrong.
And make sure none of them have access to children.
Bang
GO TO THE POLICE FIRST!!!!
Or in the alternative, GO TO THE POLICE IMMEDIATELY!!!!
What about this is so hard to understand.
BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.
Just wondering what everyone thinks should be done if there is suspected child abuse. We tell the WTS that the 2 witness rule is wrong, then we tell them that doing something is wrong.
Sirona
The elders are NOT a going to help you. Go to the police and a conusor. Even if you can't PROVE his/her gilt in this one case, it will help in any future cases against the perp.
The Great and Powerful Oz:
pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
OK, so go to the police first. Then, tell the elders? or not? What should the elders then do?
Sirona
Sirona, you are asking too many questions.. LOL
Seriously though, it is difficult for many of us to put ourselves in the shoes of a believing and faithful JW who is in this situation because we don't believe it anymore. The elder arrangement is a farce to us now.
So when you see advice like "go to the police first" and other advice which basically disregards the authority structure in the congregation, it does not take into account the faithful JW mindset.
If a JW has a problem with what someone in the congregation did, it is almost a given they will by nature go to the elders first. Elders need to recognize where their qualifications end and those of trained professionals begin. They need to encourage these ones to go to where they can get help or if they are minors, they should take them to where they can be helped.
You cannot legislate an individual to go to the police before they go to the elders. Individuals will go to whomever they wish to first and all of the policy changes in the world will not stop the majority of JWs from going to the elders first. So you either need the average JW to be informed, or you need elders to be required to immediately direct these ones to the authorities. Much of this is up to local laws.
Path
Write this date in your calendars' folks, I agree with everything Path said!
It's very hard to accurately describe how I would react because a) I have no children and; b) don't trust the elders enough to tell them the color of my socks.
Maybe ideally the elders would make sure the proper authorities were involved, and privately make sure the accused is always monitored. After that, they take their cue from the police. If they find enough evidence to press charges, then I'd start to warn the congregation(s).
Sirona, when did this take place? Was it very recently, maybe in reaction to the Silentlambs attention, or a while ago?
Dungbeetle, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I've had some experience in this field myself. I've gone to some of those "TRAINED AND EXPERIENCED persons" myself on this very subject only to find that they were so full of personal prejudices and psychological blather that they were worse than the original problem. This includes both the medical and law enforcement fields.
As Beautiful Garbage points out about the McMartin Preschool case and numerous others, the so-called "professionals" are no panacea. There is NO substitute for common sense and calm rational reason. It matters little where it is found, just as long as it is utilized. It is difficult, especially in cases like this, to keep strong emotion out of it. However if it is allowed to enter, the resulting injustice will be every bit as big as that which they are trying to cure, if not bigger.
Keep in mind here that my words are not in any way a supporting of pedophiles. I would have far less mercy towards them than you would. However, ANYTHING done should be done with careful deliberation.
The bottom line in my opinion would include this:
1. The "good-old-boy" network in the congregations stinks and needs destroyed.
2. The "shepherds" are there for the "sheep", not the other way around.
3. Anyone who rapes and molests children should be castrated first, then hung. (Sadly, that's illegal, so just turn them over to the police and let them face the music alone.)
LoneWolf
Path,
I can see your point about the JW mindset. Assuming that the individual goes to the elders, I agree that the elders should immediately inform authorities. It seems that after that, we are unclear as to what should happen next. Should the congregation be informed of the *accusation*? Should the elders wait for the police prosecution before they inform people?
The case I have given shows that sometimes the individual is suspected but not convicted. This man was involved in a case 6 years ago and it was never mentioned in the congregation. THEN he does it again - to a little girl in the congregation. If people had been warned 1st time around that he had been *suspected* then they'd have been more careful. Of course, we are going into the realms of damaging someone's reputation if they are innocent.
HHmmm - this happened VERY recently - last couple of months. The incident happened recently and the elders and police were immediately informed. I believe that the elders have acted this way knowing the current accusations against the society. They've made sure noone will say they didn't act!
Sirona
