by new hope and happiness 31 Replies latest jw friends
Punk: " in my opinion a fact is what ever we choose to believe"
I was trying to share that opinion without getting slaughterd on my earlier thread " what is a fact".
On this thread i am trying to establish " facts are not always what we chooce to believe"
P.S punk, i was in the libary reading a 6 month old " Mojo" magazine. It was sad to read Lou Reid died, and i loved the article on the " Ruts" A great punk band that quite made it.
bohm: i only have 3 posts left, but it would be remiss of me not to use one of those to thank you for your insightful post.
On this thread i am trying to establish " facts are not always what we chooce to believe"
Yeah, far too conceptual for me. I probably didn't read it all properly.
I suppose if we believe something we don't want to believe on the basis it's 'a fact' we might end up finding out it isn't what we thought it was...case in point 'this generation' muwahahaha.....ah, I'll shut up. Never was a debater.....I prefer to listen to that sort of thing.
P.S punk, i was in the libary reading a 6 month old " Mojo" magazine. It was sad to read Lou Reid died, and i loved the article on the " Ruts" A great punk band that quite made it.
Yes. Lou Reed bless him. The Ruts not sure if they're all still alive either. So many of the old guard are gone. Some good new bands.
If I choose to believe that god exists, is that a fact? 2 points;...
1...it is a fact that I choose to believe it.
2..it does not make it a fact because I choose to believe it....conclusion;
Not everything we choose to believe is a fact, rather the choice to believe is the fact.
NHaH: I think you need to more firmly distinguish between the particular claim ("The cat is white") and the belief in the claim (I believe it is nearly certainly true that "the cat is white"). Much post-modern waffle on truth and facts arise by confusing the two, for instance it is argued that since we can never know for certain that a cat is white (the second type of claim) the first type of statement does not make sense, or since two people can have different beliefs about the cat (say one can think the cat is white and the other black; again a claim of the second type) we cannot make sense of the factual statement "the cat is white".
Once this distinction is made, and once we accept knowledge is not certainty nor have to be, a lot of philosophical deadwood is swept away.
NH&H, I won't redefine "fact" so that your observation (which is a very good one) remains true.
Whatever reality children are raised under, and in our great world there are very many realities, facts remain the same. Very often child does find out through painful experience that those things he relied on as being true, aren't so.
But there are facts that do not change, no matter how fickle people are.
Explaining what a fact is with words is a pointless waste of time.
But we do have other medias.
If anybody really wants to challenge there thinking and viewpoint on what a fact is then watch the film " Dogtooth"
Who of us can say with 100% assurance all we believe is a fact, is a fact?
Watch the film " Dogtooth"
Well, then, I must bow out of the discussion. We are back to poetry.
Just read the IMDB synopsis. My argument still holds. No matter what word you assign, a flower still exists. You are the one playing with semantics. Call it messing with reality, call it corrupting truth, but the messing with children's or people's reality does not change facts.
Are you uncertain about gravity and it's effects?
Jgnat: Yes i am uncertain on gravity and it's effects. Can anybody explain how gravity works?
. I think i have a more artistic mind than a scientific mind, but as i can't defend my argument better than that your argument holds.
It's nice to debate in a place where my viewpoint was challenged so respectively. Thanks all for the debate.
