by crawdad2 41 Replies latest watchtower scandals
amac,
you would guess these things are not typical, and are not even a large minority????..........hmmmmmm........you must think the large number of silent lambs and their experiences are not true!...
are you keeping in mind that most rape and molestaion victims NEVER COME FORWARD????????????????........so the ones on silent lambs are just a drop in the bucket of what's really going on.
amac and path,
If you think this is not representative of a meeting with elders under these circumstances, perhaps you could share exactly what you think does happen in a typical meeting. At what point does crawdad's story become atypical? The personal questions? The conclusion that there is nothing they can (will) do? The warning not to tell anyone else for fear of shunning? I'm curious.
Hmmm
hmmm and crawdad,
You are right, I'm sure most elder bodies, when approached with a suspected child molestation, will take the supposed victim alone into a room, so they can ask question after question to satisfy their own sexual curiosity, with absolutely no feelings for the child but only thinking how to get rid of the situation.
The question her to the point of crying (because that's their favorite part!) and then leave her hanging for 5 minutes just to tell her "Sorry, no witnesses." And they conclude with "Oh yeah, if you tell anyone else this, you will DIE!"
That is the picture you seem to attempt to portray in the initial post, albeit through semantic implications.
Get real. If that is the way you feel the majority of elder bodies act, then you are more brainwashed than a die hard JW.
And to add,
I don't doubt any stories on the SL site, but I don't think he's gonna post any "My elder body was very helpful and helped me in this time of need." That would kind of defeat his purpose wouldn't it? I don't doubt that atrocities happen in the JW organization, and I am whole hearedly hoping for a change in JW policy to report all cases to the authorities. But I think it foolish to try and generalize all elders into the category that this thread attempts.
hi amac,
i'll stand behind the post cause that's EXACTLY" what i saw while i was in the organization.
how do you think jw elders get "appointed" anyway?.....by holy spirit?
please........
any brother who is a good liar, and good at the kiss-up game can work his way up to elder.
for 20 yrs i watched the haughtiest, lying, 2 faced hypocrite kiss-ups, get "appointed" to be ministerial servants and elders.....while brother "love" was left in the dust....(cause he was a thorn in their side)
it's no wonder that they jump at the chance to sit in a committe meeting with a little girl, or teenage girl, or married sister....while they question her, wanting to know all the explicit details of it,,,,,,,while she breaks down and crys and crys.....begging for mercy........just to have them inform her that she doen't have 2 witnesses, and if she continues to talk about it she will be disfellowshipped..........and guess what,,,,SHE CAN'T STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.........AND THEY DO DISFELLOWSHIP HER.
how do you expect snakes and vipers to meter out justice, amac?????
You are absolutely right!
Most elders are liars, kiss-ups, haughty, 2-faced perverts! In fact, they are probably ALL child molesters, every last one of them!
LOL..you are quite delusional!
"But I think your post paints a misleading picture of elders in general. Many here were elders for several years and in those years they served, many actually cared for the members of their congregation. Too paint them all as you have doesn't seem right."
I agree with Pathofthorns, that not all elders are like that. True.
But the problem is that the "dynamic", "zealous" elders "taking the lead" in the congregations do have a higher percentage that are like that.
I know this from the three congregations that I have been with. In each the elders taking the lead were known for there insensitive remarks, for there shepherding that would leave sisters and also brothers in tears, for there consistant lack of empathy, for there suggestions, backed up by WT articles, to sisters in divided homes that left them deeply distressed and demoralised.
I can say, fortunately, that I never served on a judicial committee dealing with a young abused sister, but I remember the very first committee I was on, where a mature sister was confessing adultery from years before, and how the "dynamic", "zealous" chairmen elder reduced her to a state of sobbing distress, with his probing repetitious questioning.
So I know without doubt that the scenario described by Crawdad2 has happened and is still happening, more often than a general cross section of elders would lead you to believe, because IMO it tends to be the more "zealous" extreme elders "taking the lead" that carry out the majority of the shepherding and judicial tasks.
And then these same elders then encourage like-minded brothers to "reach-out" and recommend them for appointment, so reinforcing their own position and the overall attitude of the elder body. Which leads to, as Crawdad2 stated, more of the genuinely caring elders stepping down.
Just my opinion but....i think we go we go down the wrong path when we start speaking with some sort of authority about the "percentage" of elders who were of this sort or that. I mean, I could start in and say : Well, I was a member of SIX congregations and all of the P.O.'s were among the most humble men to walk the earth, therefore the the percentage of BAD elders is very low, while the percentage of GOODS elders is very high!
I know, an extereme example, but the point speaks to perceptions. It also, I think, speaks to the variety of people, even amongst a fairly homogeneous group such as JW's.
My OPINION is that MOST people are fairly good. I beleieve that statement to be true even amongst elders. The methods are another issue. They come from the top down. They are ingrained as a religious belief that many have held their entire life. Think about that. Pretty powerful stuff that religion (Wars, crusades, inquisitions, etc.). Many good men have been led down that path.
I also realize that anecdotes such as that brought forth by crawdad are very true. They are indeed horrible truths that need to be exposed.
How often do these things take place as crawdad described ? Dunno. The percentage that take this approach as stated by crawdad, spero and other? Dunno. We really only know about the ones that are .. well... known. We take what we KNOW and we use IT to change things.
hhhmmmm I am a mother...was a pioneer...and I don't remember beating my child with a wooden spoon at the back of the hall...guess I am blocking huh? In fact in the 20 years I was a JW and in the 10 some odd halls I was a part of I don't remember that happening.... Were there spanking? Yep...did I spank my daughter??? Yep...still do...hhhmmm must be a hold-over from my JW days, you think? Does it happen...probably does in come congs...and some churches...and some homes....
Do I believe there are a lot of abused children in the org? Yes most likely...there are a lot of abused children all over the world. I am glad something is being done about the ones in the org...I hope to see something done for ALL the children who are hurt or abused by adults..any adults...in any religion...
Do I believe all elders act the way crawdad described...NO...I have been in a committee meeting before...as have several other people I known...no one asked the color of my underware...Does it happen??? Most likely yes sometimes it does....Do cops harrass innocent people sometimes?? Yep....some do...Catholic priests molest children? Yep some do....Should it stop??? Of Course. But to paint all elders with a broad brush like that just sinks us down to their level now doesn't it? lol all worldly people are bad. All worldly people are fornicators. All worldly people lie.
The facts about child abuse among JW's speak for themselves. And they speak loudly.....we don't need sensationalism....personally I feel it just detracts from the REAL message.
I try not to 'high-five', but well said, X', thank you. bttt
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